All you ever wanted to know about Gibson T Tops

guitarjesus

Have you ever seen different colored wire connected to the coil?  One of my T-Tops has a blue wire connected to the coil wore

OilCityPickups

guitarjesus said:

Have you ever seen different colored wire connected to the coil?  One of my T-Tops has a blue wire connected to the coil wore

No I haven't, although that's no indication that it isn't factory correct. Gibson did a lot of weird and random things back in the day. 
Take an example the Gibson pickup that spawned my own PAT 63: a '1963' patent label pickup, that had been in the same SG since new and was undisturbed,  Yet under the covers were PAF bobbins (not T Tops) wound with PVA plain enamel wire like a PAF, yet sat on a short alnico 5 magnet and having PAF output levels. 
Old stuff got used up and mixed with new stuff  in the Gibson factory of old. 

Tannin

A fascinating thread @OilCityPickups which I read with a goods deal of interest. Thankyou!

(It must be my inner geek - I don't play electric and pickups are thus of no practical use to me whatever - but it was nevertheless a good read.)

OilCityPickups

Tannin said:

A fascinating thread @OilCityPickups which I read with a goods deal of interest. Thankyou!

(It must be my inner geek - I don't play electric and pickups are thus of no practical use to me whatever - but it was nevertheless a good read.)

Just from an 'evolution of technology' standpoint pickup history is fascinating. 

PhilKing

OilCityPickups said:

guitarjesus said:

Have you ever seen different colored wire connected to the coil?  One of my T-Tops has a blue wire connected to the coil wore

No I haven't, although that's no indication that it isn't factory correct. Gibson did a lot of weird and random things back in the day. 
Take an example the Gibson pickup that spawned my own PAT 63: a '1963' patent label pickup, that had been in the same SG since new and was undisturbed,  Yet under the covers were PAF bobbins (not T Tops) wound with PVA plain enamel wire like a PAF, yet sat on a short alnico 5 magnet and having PAF output levels. 
Old stuff got used up and mixed with new stuff  in the Gibson factory of old. 

That's really interesting.  I have a patent number with exactly the same features.  I picked up a really cheap SG standard in NYC back in 1980.  It was a batwing version with a maestro vibrola and had been hand painted white.  I got it for $200 from We Buy Guitars, but recognized the bridge pickup as a PAF because of the square cutout on the coils.  I still have that pickup but now it is in the bridge position of my 1970 Les Paul Custom.  I think it is an A5 magnet, just because of the sound, but it is one of the best sounding pickups and I won't be getting rid of it.

Dave_Mc

OilCityPickups said:

No I haven't, although that's no indication that it isn't factory correct. Gibson did a lot of weird and random things back in the day. 

You're right, the modern Gibson company is extremely rational and never does anything silly.

( )

OilCityPickups

Dave_Mc said:

OilCityPickups said:

No I haven't, although that's no indication that it isn't factory correct. Gibson did a lot of weird and random things back in the day. 

You're right, the modern Gibson company is extremely rational and never does anything silly.

( )

Absolutely, with my personal Les Paul they forgot to glue about 1/3 of the fingerboard on properly and screwed on the pickup surrounds on crooked. 
Don't get me wrong, it's a fabulous guitar now - now I've changed all the plastic hardware, glued on the fingerboard securely and replaced the shonky electronics. :-) 
Oh and it has my 'Green Man' PAFs installed. 

Dave_Mc

OilCityPickups said:

Dave_Mc said:

OilCityPickups said:

No I haven't, although that's no indication that it isn't factory correct. Gibson did a lot of weird and random things back in the day. 

You're right, the modern Gibson company is extremely rational and never does anything silly.

( )

Absolutely, with my personal Les Paul they forgot to glue about 1/3 of the fingerboard on properly and screwed on the pickup surrounds on crooked. 
Don't get me wrong, it's a fabulous guitar now - now I've changed all the plastic hardware, glued on the fingerboard securely and replaced the shonky electronics. :-) 
Oh and it has my 'Green Man' PAFs installed. 

Oh wow 

roberty

ONLY A GIBSON IS GOOD ENOUGH

Kittyfrisk

OilCityPickups said:

Dave_Mc said:

OilCityPickups said:

No I haven't, although that's no indication that it isn't factory correct. Gibson did a lot of weird and random things back in the day. 

You're right, the modern Gibson company is extremely rational and never does anything silly.

( )

Absolutely, with my personal Les Paul they forgot to glue about 1/3 of the fingerboard on properly and screwed on the pickup surrounds on crooked. 
Don't get me wrong, it's a fabulous guitar now - now I've changed all the plastic hardware, glued on the fingerboard securely and replaced the shonky electronics. :-) 
Oh and it has my 'Green Man' PAFs installed. 

How do the 'Green Man' PAF's relate to your ' three different flavours " of T-Top that you mentioned earlier in the thread?

OilCityPickups

Kittyfrisk said:

OilCityPickups said:

Dave_Mc said:

OilCityPickups said:

No I haven't, although that's no indication that it isn't factory correct. Gibson did a lot of weird and random things back in the day. 

You're right, the modern Gibson company is extremely rational and never does anything silly.

( )

Absolutely, with my personal Les Paul they forgot to glue about 1/3 of the fingerboard on properly and screwed on the pickup surrounds on crooked. 
Don't get me wrong, it's a fabulous guitar now - now I've changed all the plastic hardware, glued on the fingerboard securely and replaced the shonky electronics. :-) 
Oh and it has my 'Green Man' PAFs installed. 

How do the 'Green Man' PAF's relate to your ' three different flavours " of T-Top that you mentioned earlier in the thread?

My Green Man PAFs are not really in the T Top family. Named after the guitarist famous for Green Green Manalishi and other compositions - the basis for them is a 59 PAF with a rewound (with heavy formvar) and reverse phase neck pickup. 

Kittyfrisk

Thanks. I got the PG reference I have a Vintage Lemon Drop & have played the Bare Knuckle PG Blues set.
I was just curious as to how close they were to a T-Top in terms of construction & general sound (apart from the reverse phase mod).

OilCityPickups

Kittyfrisk said:

Thanks. I got the PG reference I have a Vintage Lemon Drop & have played the Bare Knuckle PG Blues set.
I was just curious as to how close they were to a T-Top in terms of construction & general sound (apart from the reverse phase mod).

Quite a bit of difference in construction and sound PAFs are in general a bit thicker with less bite on the edge - I say generally, because all sorts of PAFs exist. 

76standard

I am the original owner of a 1976 Les Paul Standard that came with T-top pickups. At some point the neck pickup stopped working. The pickups had the nickel cover. I decided to send the pickup to a reputable winder, Brandonwound Pickups here in the US, to be inspected, and if necessary rewound. Prior to sending in the pickup to Brandonwound I unsoldered the cover to inspect the inner elements of the pickup. They had the distinctive "T" on the top of the bobbins, maple (not plastic) spacers, and as I would find out from Zach at Brandonwound Pickups, short, rough cast AlNiCo 5 magnets. I did not remove the black tape that covers the coils, so I could not confirm the type of wire that this article mentions. The fix was a simple one with the braided lead where it attached to the coil wires. I'm sure some of you would like to see pictures, but this is my first post and do not have the pics loaded to a URL. For now, I'm just adding to the original posts information.

OilCityPickups

76standard said:

I am the original owner of a 1976 Les Paul Standard that came with T-top pickups. At some point the neck pickup stopped working. The pickups had the nickel cover. I decided to send the pickup to a reputable winder, Brandonwound Pickups here in the US, to be inspected, and if necessary rewound. Prior to sending in the pickup to Brandonwound I unsoldered the cover to inspect the inner elements of the pickup. They had the distinctive "T" on the top of the bobbins, maple (not plastic) spacers, and as I would find out from Zach at Brandonwound Pickups, short, rough cast AlNiCo 5 magnets. I did not remove the black tape that covers the coils, so I could not confirm the type of wire that this article mentions. The fix was a simple one with the braided lead where it attached to the coil wires. I'm sure some of you would like to see pictures, but this is my first post and do not have the pics loaded to a URL. For now, I'm just adding to the original posts information.

Great to hear from you @76standard ; ... 

PhilKing

PhilKing said:

OilCityPickups said:

guitarjesus said:

Have you ever seen different colored wire connected to the coil?  One of my T-Tops has a blue wire connected to the coil wore

No I haven't, although that's no indication that it isn't factory correct. Gibson did a lot of weird and random things back in the day. 
Take an example the Gibson pickup that spawned my own PAT 63: a '1963' patent label pickup, that had been in the same SG since new and was undisturbed,  Yet under the covers were PAF bobbins (not T Tops) wound with PVA plain enamel wire like a PAF, yet sat on a short alnico 5 magnet and having PAF output levels. 
Old stuff got used up and mixed with new stuff  in the Gibson factory of old. 

That's really interesting.  I have a patent number with exactly the same features.  I picked up a really cheap SG standard in NYC back in 1980.  It was a batwing version with a maestro vibrola and had been hand painted white.  I got it for $200 from We Buy Guitars, but recognized the bridge pickup as a PAF because of the square cutout on the coils.  I still have that pickup but now it is in the bridge position of my 1970 Les Paul Custom.  I think it is an A5 magnet, just because of the sound, but it is one of the best sounding pickups and I won't be getting rid of it.

Forgot one detail on mine, one of the coils is plain enamel and the other is poly coated.  There is a PAT # sticker on the bottom too.  The guitar was a 1966, but the pickup had had the cover removed and I don't know that it was original to the guitar, but it seemed like it was.

OilCityPickups

PhilKing said:

PhilKing said:

OilCityPickups said:

guitarjesus said:

Have you ever seen different colored wire connected to the coil?  One of my T-Tops has a blue wire connected to the coil wore

No I haven't, although that's no indication that it isn't factory correct. Gibson did a lot of weird and random things back in the day. 
Take an example the Gibson pickup that spawned my own PAT 63: a '1963' patent label pickup, that had been in the same SG since new and was undisturbed,  Yet under the covers were PAF bobbins (not T Tops) wound with PVA plain enamel wire like a PAF, yet sat on a short alnico 5 magnet and having PAF output levels. 
Old stuff got used up and mixed with new stuff  in the Gibson factory of old. 

That's really interesting.  I have a patent number with exactly the same features.  I picked up a really cheap SG standard in NYC back in 1980.  It was a batwing version with a maestro vibrola and had been hand painted white.  I got it for $200 from We Buy Guitars, but recognized the bridge pickup as a PAF because of the square cutout on the coils.  I still have that pickup but now it is in the bridge position of my 1970 Les Paul Custom.  I think it is an A5 magnet, just because of the sound, but it is one of the best sounding pickups and I won't be getting rid of it.

Forgot one detail on mine, one of the coils is plain enamel and the other is poly coated.  There is a PAT # sticker on the bottom too.  The guitar was a 1966, but the pickup had had the cover removed and I don't know that it was original to the guitar, but it seemed like it was.

It's interesting that late 1965/66 was when Gibson's full change over to poly wire occurred. 

Cirrus

I bought a set of Gibson's "Calibrated T-Types". Not entirely sure what my plan with them is yet, to be honest I bid on them on a whim when I should have been more prudent. Wine may have been involved. Anyway, the Bridge measures 7.6k and the neck 6.9k. I'm surprised the neck is so underwound. Will probably do an A/B with the T-tops in my Explorer at some point.

OilCityPickups

Cirrus said:

I bought a set of Gibson's "Calibrated T-Types". Not entirely sure what my plan with them is yet, to be honest I bid on them on a whim when I should have been more prudent. Wine may have been involved. Anyway, the Bridge measures 7.6k and the neck 6.9k. I'm surprised the neck is so underwound. Will probably do an A/B with the T-tops in my Explorer at some point.

Unlike PAFs that were machine wound with wide tolerances, T Tops were very accurately machine wound to 7.6k neck and bridge. Most folks who wind repro T Tops make them 'calibrated' for modern tastes by winding the neck to 7.6k then over winding the bridge a little to even up the volumes. It appears that Gibson have taken a rather different approach. This will make the bridge a touch more 'accurate to spec but the neck a bit thinner. Depending on the guitar this may work out well ... or be a bit of a car crash. On heavy, plummy 1970s style Les Pauls it should work great guns .. perhaps less so on say an SG. 

xchrisv

The Calibrated T-Types in my 2021 ES-335 sound fantastic, I'm very happy with them. Here are a few examples, the first and second from a filmed live session (guitar direct using a Quad Cortex) and the third an Instagram noodle (of which there are many more posted on my account): 

https://youtu.be/_pWzdyW1v1E?si=MrpTEhgYrGE7WTa3

https://youtu.be/GWMDMzvOMb8?si=kw3ywXblo76vwEl6

https://www.instagram.com/reel/CufJ4HsqbUT/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==