e bay advice , purchaser not happy

Modellista

MikeS said:

leerocker said:

 I will be amazed if Ebay side with this buyer.

Prepare to be amazed then, as they pretty much always do... regardless.

They don't *always*, it depends on the behaviour/reasonableness of the complainant.

In this case, if the damage is visible on the advert, ask the seller exactly what it is that he's complaining about.  If the advert is nice and clear about the black nut and the lacquer cracks, it's not your fault the buyer didn't look properly.

If one of the knobs goes round all the way or is loose (not clear from your description what the problem is) and this wasn't mentioned on the advert, that's definitely something you need to resolve one way or another.

I've had some good success asking buyers to state exactly what the problem is that wasn't already mentioned in the description and photos.  That focuses their mind on the fact they should have read the description properly.

If you as a seller have misdescribed something, or the seller has picked up on something that you didn't realise and didn't mention on the description (that's happened to me, it's easy to do), you'll have to suck up the cost of rectification.

I find eBay selling is a fine line between "bigging up" the item, saying how good condition it is, without raising expectations so high that any tiny flaw is automatically grounds for return.  Similar to the dust story above, I had one guy complain about a couple of tiny dings in the paint of a pedal.  Basically expecting it to be brand new but for half the price of a shop item.  I try and tone down my descriptions since then, you never know how picky a buyer is going to be.

impmann

Caveat Emptor. It used to exist on ebay, then the entitled wankers took over.

Dont get suckered into a partial refund. Its the latest scam by folks trying to get stuff cheaper. 

Suggest he accepts it as seen in the clear pictures or he returns it for a full refund. The pot shaft thing - thats bullshit, and the splined section on the top at worst needs opening out a bit (two mins with a screwdriver). 

leerocker

Modellista said:

MikeS said:

leerocker said:

 I will be amazed if Ebay side with this buyer.

Prepare to be amazed then, as they pretty much always do... regardless.

They don't *always*, it depends on the behaviour/reasonableness of the complainant.

In this case, if the damage is visible on the advert, ask the seller exactly what it is that he's complaining about.  If the advert is nice and clear about the black nut and the lacquer cracks, it's not your fault the buyer didn't look properly.

If one of the knobs goes round all the way or is loose (not clear from your description what the problem is) and this wasn't mentioned on the advert, that's definitely something you need to resolve one way or another.

I've had some good success asking buyers to state exactly what the problem is that wasn't already mentioned in the description and photos.  That focuses their mind on the fact they should have read the description properly.

If you as a seller have misdescribed something, or the seller has picked up on something that you didn't realise and didn't mention on the description (that's happened to me, it's easy to do), you'll have to suck up the cost of rectification.

I find eBay selling is a fine line between "bigging up" the item, saying how good condition it is, without raising expectations so high that any tiny flaw is automatically grounds for return.  Similar to the dust story above, I had one guy complain about a couple of tiny dings in the paint of a pedal.  Basically expecting it to be brand new but for half the price of a shop item.  I try and tone down my descriptions since then, you never know how picky a buyer is going to be.

Since the dusty pedal I have done exactly this. 

With this current buyer issue I have questioned him on the returns dispute that did he not clearly read that I described it as used and has Marks all over the guitar and a ding on the front and on the headstock and pictures showing this and if you wanted an immaculate one then this one isn't for you which was what I had put in the description. 

This isn't a usual buyers remorse case it's more of a bedroom dealer just wanting money back to make more money hoping I would bow to his demands and when I called him out about I know who you are and what you do as it's all over the net and on here too I got the abuse aggressive emails threats negative feedback etc then the return for refund request not as described.

I always downplay any guitar amp or pedal I list on ebay now with every fault mark or issue so I dont get the hassle of returns or not as described etc.. 
It does make me laugh when people describe guitars as mint condition but has a ding here and ding there broken neck but apart from that its mint!
In general Ebay is fine but 1 out of a 100 you are going to come across a nut job unfortunately. 

Arktik83

Just have them send it back.  I had a similar case with a Baja tele where one guy said the pickup was faulty and some other stuff and wanted me to pay £150 for it all to be fixed.  I told him to send it back and I'd fully refund him.  He kept insisting and I insisted he send it back and I would refund him. 

Needless to say no claim was filed against me and I didn't end up £150 worse off out of the deal.

Just tell the buyer to either return it or naff off. The buyers market on eBay is full of chancers who just expect you to agree to their claims because people tell scary stories about PayPal taking the sellers first born because a buyer raised a dispute.  

Don't get me wrong, I do not like PayPal one jot and I loathe the fact that they have a monopoly over private internet financial transactions.  it stinks.  But if you just offer a return and a refund the buyer doesn't have a leg to stand on tbh, you're offering what no major retailer will offer after 7-14 days of purchase let alone a private internet seller.

Good luck!

GoldenEraGuitars

Do not start a running tab for his buyers remorse. You’re not a retailer and you don’t have to bend over for him if everything was documented and or photographed.

Get him to send it back and refund him. People like that are better off cut loose ASAP.

ten77guitar

impmann said:

Caveat Emptor. It used to exist on ebay, then the entitled wankers took over.

Dont get suckered into a partial refund. Its the latest scam by folks trying to get stuff cheaper. 

Suggest he accepts it as seen in the clear pictures or he returns it for a full refund. The pot shaft thing - thats bullshit, and the splined section on the top at worst needs opening out a bit (two mins with a screwdriver). 

No, you’re misunderstanding how online auctions work. It’s down to the seller to provide a full and accurate description of the item because the buyer is not able to assess the goods in person. Therefore caveat emptor does not apply here.

impmann

ten77guitar said:

impmann said:

Caveat Emptor. It used to exist on ebay, then the entitled wankers took over.

Dont get suckered into a partial refund. Its the latest scam by folks trying to get stuff cheaper. 

Suggest he accepts it as seen in the clear pictures or he returns it for a full refund. The pot shaft thing - thats bullshit, and the splined section on the top at worst needs opening out a bit (two mins with a screwdriver). 

No, you’re misunderstanding how online auctions work. It’s down to the seller to provide a full and accurate description of the item because the buyer is not able to assess the goods in person. Therefore caveat emptor does not apply here.

OK... when I joined ebay, there wasn't an eBay UK, it was still based in the USA. And believe me, Caveat Emptor was the mantra of eBay until fairly recently (in fact, it was at the bottom of EVERY auction page). I totally understand how online auctions work as I believe I was within the first 150 UK based people joining eBay. In fact, when I first joined pictures were optional!

So I totally understand how online auctions work - and still believe that if you have good pictures and a reasonable description, it is down to the buyer to satisfy themselves of the condition *BEFORE* clicking the button. Indeed you can even ask for further pictures or you could even get off your lazy ass and view it before buying... 

ten77guitar

impmann said:

ten77guitar said:

impmann said:

Caveat Emptor. It used to exist on ebay, then the entitled wankers took over.

Dont get suckered into a partial refund. Its the latest scam by folks trying to get stuff cheaper. 

Suggest he accepts it as seen in the clear pictures or he returns it for a full refund. The pot shaft thing - thats bullshit, and the splined section on the top at worst needs opening out a bit (two mins with a screwdriver). 

No, you’re misunderstanding how online auctions work. It’s down to the seller to provide a full and accurate description of the item because the buyer is not able to assess the goods in person. Therefore caveat emptor does not apply here.

OK... when I joined ebay, there wasn't an eBay UK, it was still based in the USA. And believe me, Caveat Emptor was the mantra of eBay until fairly recently (in fact, it was at the bottom of EVERY auction page). I totally understand how online auctions work as I believe I was within the first 150 UK based people joining eBay. In fact, when I first joined pictures were optional!

So I totally understand how online auctions work - and still believe that if you have good pictures and a reasonable description, it is down to the buyer to satisfy themselves of the condition *BEFORE* clicking the button. Indeed you can even ask for further pictures or you could even get off your lazy ass and view it before buying... 

Well that must have been very early on. It’s obvious that without the buyer protection that eBay brought in it wouldn’t have survived because buyers would have got fed up of sellers ripping them off using caveat emptor and gone elsewhere.

You can’t view an item before buying because eBay don’t allow contact details to be exchanged prior to sale.

The bottom line is when you sell an item on eBay you agree to abide by their rules. If you don’t like them or think they’re unfair there are plenty of other places to sell.

impmann

ten77guitar said:

impmann said:

ten77guitar said:

impmann said:

Caveat Emptor. It used to exist on ebay, then the entitled wankers took over.

Dont get suckered into a partial refund. Its the latest scam by folks trying to get stuff cheaper. 

Suggest he accepts it as seen in the clear pictures or he returns it for a full refund. The pot shaft thing - thats bullshit, and the splined section on the top at worst needs opening out a bit (two mins with a screwdriver). 

No, you’re misunderstanding how online auctions work. It’s down to the seller to provide a full and accurate description of the item because the buyer is not able to assess the goods in person. Therefore caveat emptor does not apply here.

OK... when I joined ebay, there wasn't an eBay UK, it was still based in the USA. And believe me, Caveat Emptor was the mantra of eBay until fairly recently (in fact, it was at the bottom of EVERY auction page). I totally understand how online auctions work as I believe I was within the first 150 UK based people joining eBay. In fact, when I first joined pictures were optional!

So I totally understand how online auctions work - and still believe that if you have good pictures and a reasonable description, it is down to the buyer to satisfy themselves of the condition *BEFORE* clicking the button. Indeed you can even ask for further pictures or you could even get off your lazy ass and view it before buying... 

Well that must have been very early on. It’s obvious that without the buyer protection that eBay brought in it wouldn’t have survived because buyers would have got fed up of sellers ripping them off using caveat emptor and gone elsewhere.

You can’t view an item before buying because eBay don’t allow contact details to be exchanged prior to sale.

The bottom line is when you sell an item on eBay you agree to abide by their rules. If you don’t like them or think they’re unfair there are plenty of other places to sell.

No... there were less wankers selling shit stuff! And there were less time wasting wankers too.

And yes, you can view before you buy - its *not* against their rules. You can share your phone number quite legitimately.  They tried stopping this but it got overturned. In fact, you can actually have your phone number listed in your contact details.

You are completely within your rights to ask questions, ask for more pictures and to satisfy yourself before committing money. 

Epsilon

I always fully test my items and describe them accurately. If someone isn't happy I give them the option of sending it back for a full refund, but don't get into partial refund territory as so many people seem to like trying to knock a little money off after they've received it. The more they're indulged the more they will do it future, and half the time they suddenly decide they can live with the "problem" once they realise it's not going to happen.

And in reference to the post above, it turns out that viewing before buying is actually against the rules for the seller. I had my account restricted for allowing someone to come and check an item before buying (even though it didn't actually sell).

ten77guitar

Edit: Epsilon is right - you can’t exchange contact details prior to sale.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/help/selling/resolving-buyer-issues/contacting-buyer-bidder?id=4083

I stand by my point that if ebay implemented caveat emptor it would be used by some sellers to get away with selling dodgy goods and refusing returns and buyers would soon disappear in their droves and there would be no more eBay. There were many stories of scams happening to defraud buyers before buyer protection came in.

It’s probably true that eBay favours the buyer a bit too much but that seems to
be better than the alternative.

impmann

https://sellercentre.ebay.co.uk/business/news/autumn2018/presale-phone-numbers

Believe what you will.

  

impmann

Further:

https://contact.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ManageBuyerCommunication&ssPageName=STRK:ME:LNLK

Then change the bottom one to 'Yes' to share phone number...

But hey, you can't do that... right?

impmann

And it even says you can do that half way down the page shared above:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/help/selling/resolving-buyer-issues/contacting-buyer-bidder?id=4083

How to share your phone number with buyers

You can also make your phone number available to buyers so they can contact you by phone before and/or after they’ve bought from you. You’ll need to opt in before you can share your number though. Here’s how:

ten77guitar

impmann said:

And it even says you can do that half way down the page shared above:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/help/selling/resolving-buyer-issues/contacting-buyer-bidder?id=4083

How to share your phone number with buyers

You can also make your phone number available to buyers so they can contact you by phone before and/or after they’ve bought from you. You’ll need to opt in before you can share your number though. Here’s how:

Fair enough. It directly contradicts what’s written above it but then eBay terms have never been the clearest imo.

What do you say to my claim that caveat emptor would be used by some sellers to rip off buyers (as it was before buyer protection came in)?

p90fool

If you've sold over 300 guitars on eBay just treat this one as tax and move on. 
Life is too short to jeopardise a significant income on chancers. 

impmann

ten77guitar said:

What do you say to my claim that caveat emptor would be used by some sellers to rip off buyers (as it was before buyer protection came in)?

It would only catch out the gullible or those who think they can get something for nothing.

And genuinely, if you are buying something secondhand and can't be arsed to look at the pictures properly, or ask questions or view an item before bidding... then really, caveat emptor.

ten77guitar

impmann said:

ten77guitar said:

What do you say to my claim that caveat emptor would be used by some sellers to rip off buyers (as it was before buyer protection came in)?

It would only catch out the gullible or those who think they can get something for nothing.

And genuinely, if you are buying something secondhand and can't be arsed to look at the pictures properly, or ask questions or view an item before bidding... then really, caveat emptor.

No, I’m talking about people who actively try to scam buyers. For example, they sell a guitar which has had the pickups changed, or is a complete mess under the scratch plate. They don’t mention this in the description then claim ‘caveat emptor’ and refuse a return. How can a buyer be expected to ask about every possible thing that could be wrong with an item?

MikeS

Firstly, I'm under no illusion there are dodgy ebayers who look for issues in order to get part refunds.

I've just had a look at your ebay listing, and you don't mention the nut or stress cracks. Even though you don't offer returns on the listing, I think your best bet is just to offer him a return for a refund. Then relist it again, mentioning the issue. If you knew about the Nut, and the buyer has a genuine concern, then give him his part refund. It's all of our worst nightmares, buying a guitar online and receiving it with undisclosed issues. It's what puts people off buying online. Just do the right thing.

impmann

ten77guitar said:

impmann said:

ten77guitar said:

What do you say to my claim that caveat emptor would be used by some sellers to rip off buyers (as it was before buyer protection came in)?

It would only catch out the gullible or those who think they can get something for nothing.

And genuinely, if you are buying something secondhand and can't be arsed to look at the pictures properly, or ask questions or view an item before bidding... then really, caveat emptor.

No, I’m talking about people who actively try to scam buyers. For example, they sell a guitar which has had the pickups changed, or is a complete mess under the scratch plate. They don’t mention this in the description then claim ‘caveat emptor’ and refuse a return. How can a buyer be expected to ask about every possible thing that could be wrong with an item?

They still do it now, so what's different?

If you are buying a guitar and the pickups are important or you are worried about what might be under the scratchplate - ask for a picture. Or get off your ass and go look at it yourself before parting with cash. 

Want a warranty? Buy new.