Floyd Rose woes

mynameistrouble

Two springs in those claws won’t get the bridge parallel with the body even fully tensioned...

ICBM

Don’t angle the springs, it can cause problems despite being a popular thing to do. Three springs set straight, as you have it, is correct.

mynameistrouble

ICBM said:

mynameistrouble said:

Thanks for all the responses.

A few days and much experimentation later I am still having issues. I've stretched the hell out of the strings (which now no longer pop out at the bridge), and I can get it to stay perfectly in tune when I'm just playing normally, but one even vaguely dive-bombish push on the bar and everything goes out. Never the same way. Sometimes the bottom strings go sharp and the top stays in tune, just now the bottom stayed stayed vaguely in tune (A is a bit sharp) and the G-E are very flat. 

String gauge is 9-46 in Eb tuning. Here's a pic of the springs: https://www.dropbox.com/s/ij63odxlt84uoux/unnamed.jpg?dl=0

Am I at the 'storm in and demand an explanation' point yet? Am I kidding myself that a floyd will ever stay in tune and should just block the trem?

A properly working Floyd is the most stable of all bridges. You don’t need to block it.

If the strings are going out of tune in different directions it’s slipping at the nut clamps. Do you have them done up tight enough? Do you have them fitted correctly? The ridge on the clamp should be parallel to the strings.

How tight is tight enough? I’ve read different things in different places!

ICBM

Tight enough to stop the strings slipping when you divebomb down to where the strings are slack is tight enough...

FelineGuitars

there is enough to balance a set of 9-46 in Eb tuning . 

ICBM - I've never had problems with angled springs , but don't mind if they are straight  either, just that angled gives a longer path and more tension.

If need be lengthen the spring cavity by a mm or two - I have found that having enough tension in the springs to keep them stretched out even when at zero point is the trick to reliable return to pitch.

ICBM

FelineGuitars said:

ICBM - I've never had problems with angled springs , but don't mind if they are straight  either, just that angled gives a longer path and more tension.

The problem is that if they’re angled they have to rotate slightly on the claw and the block as the bridge moves, and sometimes they can stick or audibly ‘ping’ (through the amp). Do you grease the mounting points? That can help avoid them snagging.

FelineGuitars

ICBM said:

FelineGuitars said:

ICBM - I've never had problems with angled springs , but don't mind if they are straight  either, just that angled gives a longer path and more tension.

The problem is that if they’re angled they have to rotate slightly on the claw and the block as the bridge moves, and sometimes they can stick or audibly ‘ping’ (through the amp). Do you grease the mounting points? That can help avoid them snagging.

I think some springs and claws are better than others . 

I tend to use the Schaller made ones ion my own stuff or Floyd original, which are Schaller made too. 

Sometimes a little nut sauce can help but I rarely need it on the claw.

DLM

ICBM said:

Tight enough to stop the strings slipping when you divebomb down to where the strings are slack is tight enough...

... unless you like pulling the strings sharp by a perfect fifth with a little wiggle room for vibrato on top... 

Then you just need it a little tighter.

mynameistrouble

Whether it was the stretching, the angled springs (ive added one in the middle to get it balanced again) or cranking the nut clamps (snigger), something has worked and it seems pretty stable now. Thanks for all your help.

Ive ordered some FR Original clamps just to be on the safe side as mine are showing signs of wear. Also they’re chrome which will look badass on the black hardware.

gusman2x

Nice one. Good job getting it done yourself.

ICBM

A Floyd seems complicated and daunting if you've never worked on one before, but in fact the concept and the engineering is very simple, even if it has a lot more parts than a traditional Fender-type bridge. Once you learn how it all works and how to adjust it, you won't be baffled by one again and you'll wonder why techs charge so much to set one up.

They also have the great advantage - at least a proper-quality one does, some cheaper versions aren't quite as good - that once set up correctly and with everything locked down tightly, they not only stay in tune perfectly, they never need adjusting again either... or at least not unless/until the knife edges and the locking clamps do eventually wear.

mynameistrouble

ICBM said:

A Floyd seems complicated and daunting if you've never worked on one before, but in fact the concept and the engineering is very simple, even if it has a lot more parts than a traditional Fender-type bridge. Once you learn how it all works and how to adjust it, you won't be baffled by one again and you'll wonder why techs charge so much to set one up.

They also have the great advantage - at least a proper-quality one does, some cheaper versions aren't quite as good - that once set up correctly and with everything locked down tightly, they not only stay in tune perfectly, they never need adjusting again either... or at least not unless/until the knife edges and the locking clamps do eventually wear.

Out of interest, because I’ve never quite got to the bottom of it, is the FR on my Kelly a better quality one? I bought the guitar second hand but when they were new they were over £1k, so I’d hope it has a fairly decent one (even if it isn’t a true ‘original’ FR. I read somewhere the difference was where they were put together rather than the parts used, but never verified that.

mudslide73

German ftw I think.

Schnozz

Yep, German is best.

Even 80s stoners could work those out.

WildWayz

Just out of interest - when you say "Stays in perfect tune" - do you mean each string reads     |      and not ever so slightly sharp/flat ie a few cents difference?

I'm anal and it has to return to perfect tune - only one of my guitars does this, which is the Harley Benton Fusion Pro HSH Roasted Maple. They never whacks out of tune. All others inc double-locking don't return back to where it was set to; usually a tiny bit sharp or flat by a few cents

FelineGuitars

mynameistrouble said:

ICBM said:

A Floyd seems complicated and daunting if you've never worked on one before, but in fact the concept and the engineering is very simple, even if it has a lot more parts than a traditional Fender-type bridge. Once you learn how it all works and how to adjust it, you won't be baffled by one again and you'll wonder why techs charge so much to set one up.

They also have the great advantage - at least a proper-quality one does, some cheaper versions aren't quite as good - that once set up correctly and with everything locked down tightly, they not only stay in tune perfectly, they never need adjusting again either... or at least not unless/until the knife edges and the locking clamps do eventually wear.

Out of interest, because I’ve never quite got to the bottom of it, is the FR on my Kelly a better quality one? I bought the guitar second hand but when they were new they were over £1k, so I’d hope it has a fairly decent one (even if it isn’t a true ‘original’ FR. I read somewhere the difference was where they were put together rather than the parts used, but never verified that.

Show me a pic of the block and I will be able to tell you . You can tell from the top view , but way easier to tell from the block.

Interestingly the cheaper Korean made ones respond very nicely to our "FatCat" oversize steel block for floyds.

They offer substantial mass and clarity compared to the cheap cast ones, and even over the standard German made brass ones. comparison of size below:

ICBM

WildWayz said:

All others inc double-locking don't return back to where it was set to; usually a tiny bit sharp or flat by a few cents

They're sticking slightly at the knife edges. Try greasing them lightly next time you change the strings.

Either that or you've got the springs in a fan and they're sticking on the claw hooks .

FelineGuitars

ICBM said:

WildWayz said:

All others inc double-locking don't return back to where it was set to; usually a tiny bit sharp or flat by a few cents

Either that or you've got the springs in a fan and they're sticking on the claw hooks .

Oi! (lol)

ICBM

FelineGuitars said:

Oi! (lol)

Ha - sorry, I forgot to reply earlier about taking your point relating to the quality of the block, claw and springs. I'm sure that many of the ones I've found which have caused trouble are cheaper varieties. As ever, the devil is in the details...

WildWayz

ICBM said:

WildWayz said:

All others inc double-locking don't return back to where it was set to; usually a tiny bit sharp or flat by a few cents

They're sticking slightly at the knife edges. Try greasing them lightly next time you change the strings.

Either that or you've got the springs in a fan and they're sticking on the claw hooks .

Thanks for the reply
I've greased the knife edge - changed the 2 springs (Ibanez Edge Zero 2) and replaced the trem posts - it's a little frustrating