I'm hopeless when anyone is watching me..

grappagreen

This is just killing me.. and I cannot understand why.

I've been playing for about 30 years and I consider myself a pretty capable guitarist and musician. As soon as anyone other than my immediate family are watching or listening I literally cannot play. I'm not overstating this. It's like my brain just turns off and I lose total control of my fingers.. even the simplest thing becomes literally impossible to play..

I played in bands when I was a kid and never had this issue. I played in a band a few years ago and it was somewhat hellish. Did it for three years and it never got any easier but I could always 'blend' into the band and hide behind a mic stand. When it's just me and a guitar forget it..

Just to illustrate how bad things are I've actually given up having lessons with real people. I would practice like crazy but when it came time to playing what I'd worked on in front of my tutor(s) I would simply choke.. to the point where I had one tutor tell me there was no point in me paying for lessons if I wasn't going to practice.. I could execute the piece I had learned flawlessly at home..

Ironically I speak to reasonably large audiences on a regular basis with my work and I'm about as confident a public speaker as you can find..

Help.. 

Si

munckee

Did you play at water rats? I seem to remember no one being sh1tter than me?

grappagreen

munckee said:

Did you play at water rats? I seem to remember no one being sh1tter than me?

I did and again I f'cked up pretty much everything I had learned.. 

I also sat downstairs in the room with a few of the chaps and played at about 15% of my actual capability..

darthed1981

I think sometimes it comes down to "what's the worst that can happen?" and processing that.

The worst that can possibly happen is you screw up, and everyone smiles and moves on.  If you aren't playing with people who can do that and support you, then you aren't with the right group of people (arguably). 

Music is creative, if you want to play music there is a sort of kinship there, that SHOULD make us all feel a bit warm and fuzzy.

Some musicians are perfectionists and think if you can't do x at y standard then stay in your bedroom, but again, why would they be jamming with a bunch of amateurs in the first place if they think that?

Some of the best players I've been lucky enough to play with are also some of the most supportive.

We are all human after all.

munckee

It seems like you are putting too much pressure on yourself. After stuffing up playing in front of people, especially picking it up ‘cold’ I learned a simple blues lick off by heart as a simple intro piece I could always play reasonably so if someone hands me a guitar I can always play something. 

tekbow

Red light syndrome.

Fellow sufferer. Although I probably actually am shit.

But I'm more shit when it matters.

Matt_McG

@grappagreen I am almost exactly the same as you.

I also speak in front of large audiences for a living, and find it completely stress free.

Despite that, playing in front of people, I'm a wreck. Similarly, I never had nerves playing in bands when younger. The last time I played in public and didn't find myself stricken with nerves was when I did a "pit band" gig in a theatre for an opera thing (Brecht/Weill), where the amount of rehearsal we'd done, basically stopped me from being crippled by nerves. I can sort of get by if I am jamming (e.g. doing gypsy jazz) where improv somehow mitigates the worst nerves but classical, or rock stuff, where I have to be "right", I'm just a total bag of nerves, and my hands literally stop working and cramp up through tension and stress.

On the plus side, when I was taking classical lessons, and the odd jazz lesson, I was fine. One on one with a tutor was OK, but in public, with people watching, just a total disaster. Sometimes, I play well (from the audience's point of view), but the whole time, I am on the edge of total disaster (internally). And sometimes, I really am a disaster.

I'm also a pretty decent player. I'm certainly a much better player (from a purely technical point of view) than a lot of people I know who enjoy playing with bands, and who are successful at doing that.

Mark1960

A sports coach once told me that being able to perform your abilities when it mattered is as much a skill as being able to perform on your own, i.e. you need both skills to be a performer. How many times have we all heard a band, who probably should not be performing live just yet? They have the performing skill, but have not mastered the playing skill. It would seem you are the other way around. The only way I know how to aquire the skill is by doing it. Start small and build up, or accept is not for you!

CarpeDiem

I would try to find an understanding guitar teacher who plays in a band, and ask if he/she can coach you through the mindset change needed. Perhaps you could also find someone locally that you could jam with, as there are lots of 'bedroom players' who aren't interested in playing in public but will play with like-minded guitar enthusiasts.

oh_pollo

Once a week upload a video to YouTube of a piece you've been practicing? Do you think this would cause you the same stress?

grappagreen

Thanks for the posts all - it's appreciated.

@Matt_McG - sorry to hear that you suffer in the same way.. I know exactly what you mean..

I know this is hard to explain but I don't think this is something I can just play my way out of. The symptoms I suffer aren't just nerves or apprehension - I know what these feel like and in other activities such as public speaking, exams etc. I am actually a personality that seems to get sharper/better at things when operating under those conditions. 

When it comes to playing however it's not nerves in the sense that most would understand; it's pretty much total debilitation mentally and physically. Almost impossible to explain..

Perhaps I am doomed to be the eternal bedroom guitarist.

Si

grappagreen

oh_pollo said:

Once a week upload a video to YouTube of a piece you've been practicing? Do you think this would cause you the same stress?

Thanks for this. I've actually tried this approach. Something I can play perfectly takes me about 20 takes to get a take that's 70% as good as I can really play it if I'm lucky. I've actually worked on something that I can play perfectly when the red light isn't on and gave up trying to record as I plainly was never going to be able to get a decent enough take..

Matt_McG

@grappagreen yeah, ditto. I'm a consultant. I'm on show in my daily job, all the time. I have to go into unfamiliar work environments and be thrown complex or unexpected problems to solve, while being judged, all the time. I thrive on that sort of thing. Ditto exams or other pressure environments.

It isn't as hard for me if I am recording things I've written myself, or if I'm improvising, or just doing playful jamming. I can enjoy that. But playing something that I need to know from start to finish, in front of other people, my hands just break down. I suspect doing it more (e.g. the Youtube suggestion above) might work for me over time. But it would be really hard work.

JAYJO

I would  Start with the most simple progressions you can play and build from there. Just play simple progressions.  I  IV V To begin with. no lead just chords and work on the Rhythm. 

mrkb

You should come to the Hertford jam Si, no one looks at anyone else there, were all too busy staring at our fretboards! The songs only end when I get bored playing the drums and stop playing as there’s no eye contact. And mikes amp is so loud you can’t hear anyone else’s playing either

CarpeDiem

I think what you are suffering is a type of Performance Anxiety, but you're not alone in this as others have stated. 

soma1975

grappagreen said:

munckee said:

Did you play at water rats? I seem to remember no one being sh1tter than me?

I did and again I f'cked up pretty much everything I had learned.. 

I also sat downstairs in the room with a few of the chaps and played at about 15% of my actual capability..

I'm the same and I did the same at Water Rats! 

But I have to say having done Water Rats I definitely want to do more. 

steven70

As others have said, it's red light fever/performance anxiety. If you are anything like me, it gets beyond the actual performance and becomes an issue about the anxiety itself - if that makes sense.

In case it's of use, some stuff I have found helpful. 
Just resign yourself to the fact it might be crap. Not to say visualise that it will be crap. But if it is, don't beat yourself up, just accept it and keep on anyway. There will probably be some OK or good bits and be grateful for those.
Don't drink through it, makes it worse long term. Warm up before if you can (this makes a huge difference). Get on stage, get comfy and make some noise before you start - line check or whatever, play a lick or two. If you are improvising, try and work out a few licks to fall back on in case of panic. The more you do it the easier it gets, it's about rewiring your brain to focus on the good parts, easier said than done, but...








 

grappagreen

mrkb said:

You should come to the Hertford jam Si, no one looks at anyone else there, were all too busy staring at our fretboards! The songs only end when I get bored playing the drums and stop playing as there’s no eye contact. And mikes amp is so loud you can’t hear anyone else’s playing either

I'll defo be at the next one - sounds like my perfect environment

Si

octatonic

Read these:

https://www.amazon.com/Inner-Game-Music-Barry-Green/dp/0385231261

and

https://www.amazon.com/Effortless-Mastery-Liberating-Master-Musician/dp/156224003X

grappagreen

steven70 said:

As others have said, it's red light fever/performance anxiety. If you are anything like me, it gets beyond the actual performance and becomes an issue about the anxiety itself - if that makes sense.

 

This makes total sense. I'd never thought of this before but its absolutely what happens to me. I get terrified about the fact that I know what's going to happen.

Here's an example of how bad it is. I had a couple of good friends over on Saturday night for a meal. At some point my wife dragged them into my guitar room (largely to seek support around the fact that she thinks (knows) I have too much gear!). Bear in mind these are people I've known for years, are not musical in any way and couldn't give a toss about whether I can play or not. As soon as I'm in there I start to feel the dread and the inevitable happens and they say 'go on, play a bit'. I try and put them off but it's futile and I end up bashing out a few chords and some funky rhythm just to play something. During the whole experience I know that if I tried to play anything more than these something things I'd struggle.. 

One more example. I went to the guitar show on Sunday. On reflection about my worst nightmare scenario I walk around the stands looking at things I'd love to play but just don't for obvious reasons. I eventually pick up the courage to have a quick go on a Vemuram Shanks ODS-1. This is on a stand with a chap who looks like he absolutely couldn't give a fuck about anything and I'm plugged into headphones where absolutely nobody can hear me. Again I just can't play anything more than a few chords..

It just doesn't make any sense..