Your thoughts on the used Guitar market.

Bogwhoppit

This is the worst I have ever witnessed the used guitar market. I had some hopes things would have picked up by May this year, which tends to be the case after difficult economic winters. I have varied interests, so keep a keen eye on the used market for goods associated with those past-times. However, only the guitar market is still stagnated.

The economists among us could theorise on general principles of capitalism to explain the situation. Equally, those with an interest in manufacturing could cite over production and a saturated market. Whatever the reason, how long do you think buying a quality branded instrument will have similar residues on par with the car market?

I often see it mentioned that the used value of a Gibson ten years after purchase would match the price new. Obviously you'll still make a loss if you take into account inflation etc., but I'm making a general argument that any debate can be compared against.

All the above makes the assumption you're not buying to keep, or you'll change your mind during ownership - which I suppose many of us do. For me, it's a moot point as I have what I want and have no intention of selling (for now). But what about those who are trying, or thinking of selling, but need the cash - not another trade. Also, how is it effecting peoples buying decisions ?

 

timmysoft

I think a lot more people are trading gear rather than going for sales. I refuse to use ebay because of their extortionate fees and they only protect buyers. The market is down for certain but I think we are to blame in part, the GAS culture on forums has saturated the market with good quality used gear, it's kicked the money right out of mid range stuff.

jd0272

I think the way it stands is guitaring (etc etc) for most of us is a luxury, unless it's your livelihood. If times are hard, a good cheap Yamaha, decent amp, coupla pedals (same re; drummer, bassist, singer), band financed PA/lights are all you need to 'get it on', enjoy yourself, and get paid.

If I was strapped, it would be more important to me to have diesel in the tank, food in the cupboards, and the mortgage paid, than guitars/drums/etc.

And gin of course.

A quality guitar/luxury item, like owt else, is purchased on the buyer's ability to fund it. We're still very much in a recession it would appear. I see 2001 R guitars on Fleabay for more than a 2014 spec' guitar. Fair enough but not for me. Someone will buy them, and fair play. 2012 laminated board R guitar? Not for me. Not snobbish mind, just not my thing, regardless of the price. Supposed to be 1 piece, not 2.

Again, a luxury item. 

(I have been drinking...........apologies).

rossi

it may not just be a recession but also a declining market altogether .A lot of us are old/knackered or approaching it all  and our playing days are numbered .What was fanatstic for us is just  a bit of old tat to a youngster who will spend their money in different way .We longed for Strats and Gibsons and couldnt afford them but later on in life  we could .Not saying all guitarists are old,there are some great kids out there but its a generational thing .Most youngsters dont ride  or buy motorcycles .They drive peds to get around then cars .Maybe some will buy a bike but most wont .Guitars will always be around but like Harpsichords they may well be not so popular .

TTony

I don't think that there's any big mystery.

On the supply side ...

Abundant / excess supply of new product that hasn't really evolved or developed in decades - so no real opportunity to build in obsolescence to force an upgrade cycle.

Old product doesn't really "wear out" either, unless your stupid with it, so I'm guessing that a large % of all the guitars ever made (at least the ones that were made properly) are still around somewhere.

On the demand side ...

As people have said, it's a luxury/hobby item, and - with a few exceptions - I'm not sure that the economy has recovered to the levels of a few years ago.  That might also be affected by changing attitudes to debt - so where people are spending, they're using proper money rather than debt to fund the purchases.

No rocket science, just economics!

Richardj

Definitely whacked! The 'bay is full of over optimistic sellers and mickey taking buyers (as well as those fees).  We are our own worst enemies here.  Every one has decent gear and a fair idea of what it is properly worth, or at least what was invested in it.

It is also far easier to trade between 'friends' than exchange cash.  

GavRichList

It has 2 sides, obviously. I've just bought a 1962 fender jaguar, and I never thought I'd be able to. It's been possible due to a good exchange rate and a lull in the market. Great; I've got my dream guitar.

Downside however, is that I can't sell another guitar for love nor money...and I'd set my heart on the money option!

koneguitarist

I personally think, people just want too much money for their gear. 

It is a real buyers market out there, lots of youngsters don't have the same hang ups about name on headstock, or where it was built. Just as long as it's a good guitar.

There is so much out there, years ago certain areas gear was cheaper than other places, the West Country used to be one of the cheapest places to buy guitars, strangely enough, South Wales and "oop North" used to be most expensive, considering high unemployment. 

Now with EBay, and the internet all areas seem to have levelled out to a higher price.

Too high. 

meltedbuzzbox

It depends on what is being sold

MIJ Jazzmasters and Jaguars are fetching £500+ all day long on ebay

but generally the market is hard work for the seller. 

koneguitarist

More like £400 if you check completed listings not what people are asking .

xSkarloey

I'm with @koneguitarist and think that a lot of people are just too ambitious in their pricing, particularly for higher end stuff like Gibsons. 

I'm a left hander on the lookout for a Les Paul, so you could argue it's a bit more of a seller's market here perhaps because of the relative scarcity of models available. Even so,  I've seen a lot of stuff on ebay in particular that isn't shifting, and gets relisted time after time. Essentially it's down to people having a set idea of how much they want for it and not budging. 

Maybe I should test the nerve of a couple of them and make some offers...

capo4th

I have made some sensible offers for good guitars on eBay recently. Cash collect so sellers can avoid fees and no one wants to budge on price. American vintage tele listed for a grand offered 850 as an opener cash collect no eBay fees. Seller wants 950 cash collect which is more than what he would get on an eBay sale after fees. I explained this to no avail and moved on. The market seems saturated with good gear but sellers need to be realistic about used prices.

richardhomer

Reminiscent of the housing market....

In 2008, economists were predicting 30% price drops. Buyers stayed away, waiting for the fall - sellers were generally not so desperate to sell that were prepared to drop their prices significantly, ergo the predicted falls didn't materialise.

A market can only ever truly be described as "buyers' market" when a greater number of people HAVE to sell, than are prepared to buy.

I would suggest that most things advertised on here are being sold by serial flippers - not by people who have an urgent need for cash.

In good, bad or indifferent markets, there is always the opportunity for the aggressive buyer to exploit a distressed seller but such people generally represent a fraction of those advertising.

I see this panning out in on of two ways; buyers eventually learn that we are out of recession and it is not their inalienable right to bag a bargain, or transaction levels stay low.

tonyrath

I am a guitar teacher and remarkably still in some sort of business. BUT in my area enquiries are for classical and folk guitar lessons, not electric unless its jazz. This is not my choice its what comes on the phone. The vogue is to be Ed flaming Sheeran not Sting etc among the younger players. 

Also income levels against cost of living are lower and have not recovered from the recession years - factor in levels of student debt and mortgage - the relative cheapness of goodish guitars, the ability to make musical noises on tablets and other devices and the "dream machine " is reduced. I would like my own dream machine ES175 very nice but I am either going to settle for something less. Epiphone are issuing new models or upgrading one of my own guitars. Pricing is unrealistic IMO 

Fretwired

I've sold a few things recently by being realistic about the price. Many prices on eBay are just unrealistic - I find these days selling and buying via forums like this is the way to go - goodbye and good riddance to eBay.

Modern production techniques mean that today's entry level guitars are pretty good. The latest incarnation of the Pacifica 112 is vastly superior to the original model - who'd buy an old one? I've seen them go for £40 on evilbay. And unless you gig or have a large stash of cash why would you want a Custom Shop Strat or Les Paul?

But I think the biggest problem is supply outweighs demand. Fender, Gibson and PRS have flooded the market with guitars at every price point that ultimately find their way into the second hand market. There are more sellers than buyers.

Skipped

I don't see how we can judge the guitar market right now without discussing the Economy.      :-S
 And I think there is an information mismatch which is a bit worrying. The dire warnings from Shelter (half of households in the North are 1 month away from financial disaster). Huh? A quarter of teachers are bringing food into school to feed kids who are hungry. Huh? Most payday loans are used to buy food. Huh?

The mismatch is that this does not sound like an economy with 2m unemployed. This sounds more like an economy with 5m unemployed. In which guitars are hard to sell.

Maybe we do have 5m unemployed - by any reasonable measure of "work".

jeztone2

I'm with @skipped I think we're being lied too. There is a fundamental
Shift in the economy which means people's disposable incomes are not what they were pre 2008. I really feel that you step out of the SouthEast & London times are very hard for people.

matone

Anyone who believes we are out of recession is easily hoodwinked imho.
Our purchasing power has declined greatly in the last few years,which equates to there being little
money spare for hobbies/interests.
 The fact that manufacturers have pushed up new prices of instruments is irrelevant to 2nd hand values,which will
always reflect the true worth of stuff !
 Many people are just expecting too high a price for the market today,especially for damaged and messed with
instruments .

impmann

The used market is full of guitars that are much of a muchness. Over the last 50+ years millions, literally millions of guitars have flooded the market that are actually not that dissimilar to each other. Plus the general quality has gone up in the low to mid price brackets, blurring the distinction between them and the high end guitars.

The survival rate on *all* guitars and valve amps is very high. Therefore you can realistically count on around 60% (my guesstimate) of all guitars made still exist. Therefore, electric guitars are far from being rare - no matter what the brand.

Having visited a Korean factory and watched literally 100s of PRS guitars trundle through the line over the course of a normal week for them, it's an amazing thought that all these will find homes. Especially when you see them all packed up ready to ship... Factor this in, and their high quality vs price, its no wonder that mid price 80s guitars (for example) just can't compete - but guys on eBay still put them up for daft prices.

I will also say that the impulse buy in a guitar shop has gone away. People now search eBay or online shops for specific guitars - often that they are told are 'cool'. The days of just browsing a shop and spotting an unloved gem have passed for most of us - and that was when you may try something outside of the norm.

I think the s/h market is barely ticking over - and it's because the whole guitar market is flooded. Totally swamped.

It's a shame but its a fact

Niallmo

Market is currently flooded, I'm struggling to sell things at what I think are decent prices as are many others. The odd rarer guitar comes up at decent price and gets snapped up almost immediately. 

I don't think high value £2k+ instruments have seen too much impact as most who could afford one 5 years ago can still afford one. I see that people are perhaps being more choosy at the top end though.

I really don't care what the government say, for the majority of the country the recession is still very much in effect and in my companies business (sub-prime finance) we are being hit very hard as the bottom end of the wage earners are only now really being affected. Quality has come up considerably while prices have only marginally risen (and let's face it £264 for a Squier Jazzmaster is really, really good value).  So, as always, people keep the good ones or try a trade and sell the ubiquitous.

Stevepage

I think us guitar players need to start keeping a hold on our guitars now. If you fancy something new, save up and buy it or appreciate what you have and make it work for you instead of trying to flog it quickly. I know this may have negative effects on the used market but can it really get any harder? I tried selling some guitars recently for very good prices and I had very little interest, unless I was prepared to sell for less than half what the cheapest price was on eBay for the same thing.