Timing

hotpickups

I hope I’m in the right section but I just wanted to share a small revelation. 

I’m putting together some home recordings of cover songs we do in our set. We do them differently from the original version so I thought it worthy of getting it down etc.

Anyway when producing a guide track for us to build our parts from I couldan’ t help notice that the original track by the original artist goes out of time. Obviously as we aren’t in the same room due to Covid restrictions etc we are doing our parts at our homes and I will layer it all up and mix etc. We will have to be spot on the count / click otherwise we’ll be out from each other. Just made me realise that recordings we think are perfect are not necessarily so. I reckon the original band recorded it live in the studio and being human will move in and of time organically. Perfectly natural and we all do it and that’s the great thing about being human thankfully I.e. were not machines. One just can’t be that fluid though when recording this way from home though?

poopot

hotpickups said:

One just can’t be that fluid though when recording this way from home though?

Depends how the drummer laid down his tracks!

ive got plenty of tracks here where our drummer recorded his parts in his studio without following a click... none of them stick to a perfect bpm!.

hotpickups

poopot said:

hotpickups said:

One just can’t be that fluid though when recording this way from home though?

Depends how the drummer laid down his tracks!

ive got plenty of tracks here where our drummer recorded his parts in his studio without following a click... none of them stick to a perfect bpm!.

I reckon if I scrutinised my band’s past recordings which we did in the studio which our drummer didn’t use a click track to we’ll probably be in and out then too 

digitalkettle

You can build tempo variations into your track...something I've been thinking about lately but haven't got around to trying...but even that could sound contrived and formulaic. It also makes it slightly trickier to collaborate if the other party want to sync-up (although this is neither impossible nor essential).

There were a few YouTube vids on the subject recently and I was surprised when a Joe Bonamassa track was featured and found to be bang on the grid...I don't mind JoBo at all...but, considering he can record where he likes with who he likes and the style of music he thrives upon, it seemed like an odd decision.

digitalkettle

poopot said:

Depends how the drummer laid down his tracks!

ive got plenty of tracks here where our drummer recorded his parts in his studio without following a click... none of them stick to a perfect bpm!.

What's the drummer listening to when he records?

hotpickups

digitalkettle said:

You can build tempo variations into your track...something I've been thinking about lately but haven't got around to trying...but even that could sound contrived and formulaic. It also makes it slightly trickier to collaborate if the other party want to sync-up (although this is neither impossible nor essential).

There were a few YouTube vids on the subject recently and I was surprised when a Joe Bonamassa track was featured and found to be bang on the grid...I don't mind JoBo at all...but, considering he can record where he likes with who he likes and the style of music he thrives upon, it seemed like an odd decision.

Sounds complicated technically?

digitalkettle

Btw, @hotpickups , you've posted this in 'Studio & Rec £'...might get some more action in 'Studio & Recording'.

hotpickups

digitalkettle said:

poopot said:

Depends how the drummer laid down his tracks!

ive got plenty of tracks here where our drummer recorded his parts in his studio without following a click... none of them stick to a perfect bpm!.

What's the drummer listening to when he records?

He’ll have guitar and bass recordings that will have been done to a click track

hotpickups

digitalkettle said:

Btw, @hotpickups , you've posted this in 'Studio & Rec £'...might get some more action in 'Studio & Recording'.

Oops sorry I’ll move it now 

digitalkettle

hotpickups said:

digitalkettle said:

What's the drummer listening to when he records?

He’ll have guitar and bass recordings that will have been done to a click track

Or worse, you trust them to get the arrangement right on their own

So the former is still clicked whilst the latter has no interplay.

hotpickups

digitalkettle said:

hotpickups said:

digitalkettle said:

What's the drummer listening to when he records?

He’ll have guitar and bass recordings that will have been done to a click track

Or worse, you trust them to get the arrangement right on their own

So the former is still clicked whilst the latter has no interplay.

I trust them. But thought it just easier as we aren’t recording in the same room to do it as a click. It will be spot on then and won’t have to waste time in editing ?

poopot

digitalkettle said:

What's the drummer listening to when he records?

Sometimes I bung him a guide track of guitars, but he knows the form so I guess he’s singing along in his head!...

hotpickups said:

digitalkettle said:

You can build tempo variations into your track...something I've been thinking about lately but haven't got around to trying...but even that could sound contrived and formulaic. It also makes it slightly trickier to collaborate if the other party want to sync-up (although this is neither impossible nor essential).

Sounds complicated technically?

You should be able to bung a Bpm meter on a track and set the time sig to automate to that count... you can then create a click that follows the variable time sig for everyone to play along with... it’s as easy as pressing the play button...

hotpickups

poopot said:

digitalkettle said:

What's the drummer listening to when he records?

Sometimes I bung him a guide track of guitars, but he knows the form so I guess he’s singing along in his head!...

hotpickups said:

digitalkettle said:

You can build tempo variations into your track...something I've been thinking about lately but haven't got around to trying...but even that could sound contrived and formulaic. It also makes it slightly trickier to collaborate if the other party want to sync-up (although this is neither impossible nor essential).

Sounds complicated technically?

You should be able to bung a Bpm meter on a track and set the time sig to automate to that count... you can then create a click that follows the variable time sig for everyone to play along with... it’s as easy as pressing the play button...

I’ve got the metronome on at 120bpm if that’s what you mean? Rest of the band will be setting their DAWs to the same with metronome on too?

digitalkettle

hotpickups said:
I trust them. But thought it just easier as we aren’t recording in the same room to do it as a click. It will be spot on then and won’t have to waste time in editing ?

Well, that's generally what everyone else is doing. You're better off than I am if you have other humans who can provide bass/drums/vocals

Like I said, you can build tempo variations into a click track if you're feeling adventurous...but it's still not 'organic'.

poopot

Say you want to record a cover of “best song ever” and it has a variable tempo...

import the original into your daw... add a bpm meter to the track and set your time signature track to “touch” and read the output of the meter... you can then create a click that follows that variable time sig...

Bounce the click and send to everyone... they play to the click track not the daws metronome...

but... no bugger listening will notice the effort if it’s just a small variable if that makes sense? 

hotpickups

digitalkettle said:

hotpickups said:
I trust them. But thought it just easier as we aren’t recording in the same room to do it as a click. It will be spot on then and won’t have to waste time in editing ?

Well, that's generally what everyone else is doing. You're better off than I am if you have other humans who can provide bass/drums/vocals

Like I said, you can build tempo variations into a click track if you're feeling adventurous...but it's still not 'organic'.

I’m quite a newbie at GarageBand which I’m using and I’m not even sure GarageBand could do tempo variations?

digitalkettle

hotpickups said:

I’ve got the metronome on at 120bpm if that’s what you mean? Rest of the band will be setting their DAWs to the same with metronome on too?

Your project tempo in your DAW doesn't have to remain static.

Whatever it is, collaborators have the option of setting their DAW to follow your tempo(s)...you'd have to describe this for them.

Collaborators don't need to map the tempo: they just need to record alongside your track and send the wav file back to you.
Exceptions: MIDI'd keyboards, time-based guitar effects in a collaborator's DAW, etc.

If they really need a click, you can embed that in your guide track or send it out as a separate track.

hotpickups

poopot said:

Say you want to record a cover of “best song ever” and it has a variable tempo...

import the original into your daw... add a bpm meter to the track and set your time signature track to “touch” and read the output of the meter... you can then create a click that follows that variable time sig...

Bounce the click and send to everyone... they play to the click track not the daws metronome...

but... no bugger listening will notice the effort if it’s just a small variable if that makes sense? 

Interesting @poopot but not sure how one sets the time to ‘touch’?

hotpickups

digitalkettle said:

hotpickups said:

I’ve got the metronome on at 120bpm if that’s what you mean? Rest of the band will be setting their DAWs to the same with metronome on too?

Your project tempo in your DAW doesn't have to remain static.

Whatever it is, collaborators have the option of setting their DAW to follow your tempo(s)...you'd have to describe this for them.

Collaborators don't need to map the tempo: they just need to record alongside your track and send the wav file back to you.
Exceptions: MIDI'd keyboards, time-based guitar effects in a collaborator's DAW, etc.

If they really need a click, you can embed that in your guide track or send it out as a separate track.

Already getting beyond me now and seems very very time consuming in editing / preparation  

digitalkettle

hotpickups said:

I’m quite a newbie at GarageBand which I’m using and I’m not even sure GarageBand could do tempo variations?

Looking good: https://support.apple.com/kb/PH24981?locale=en_US&viewlocale=en_US

Danny1969

It's easier if you get a drum track down first and then everyone plays to that. I would do drums, then bass and then edit bass if necessary  to make sure the bass is locked in with the drums, then build everything on that.