Anyone own a fully electric car?

roundthebend

I had a 10 day loan of a Peugeot e2008 GT Line. I can get one in Salary Sacrifice through my employer.

The one thing that didn't make this a representative experience was that I don't have a charge point at home yet, nor at work. That aside, I was able to use a local super fast charger on two occasions to get enough juice to use it for typical driving.

This particular model is a lovely car. I don't drive New vehicles often but the comfort level and refinement was exceptional. Of course it was quiet but it handled really nicely in corners when I was expecting it to be a bit scary due to the weight of batteries. It's incredibly easy to drive in busy built-up areas or on wide motorways and junctions. The driving experience is like a modern automatic but even smoother as there's no gear changes. The Peugeot looks good too in my opinion and has enough space for 4 adults and a decent boot. Acceleration was very satisfying in Normal and Sport modes, whereas Eco mode was brilliantly tuned that I'd use it most of the time unless I wanted a bit of fun. The brake regen is fantastic, hardly any need for the brake pedal so driving is even easier.

I don't want to say it, but the range was a big let down. Not sure why but the Peugeot just doesn't have a long range, it's about 165 miles real world compared to 260 of the similar sized Hyundai Kona. With an EV you really do need to think differently about "fuel" and I'd say a charge point at home is essential, so you can top-up whenever you park. However, super charging was fast and cheap despite being twice the unit price of my home energy provider. I got from 13% charge to 93% in about an hour, costing £14.

Other nights with Peugeot we're that some controls were glitchy to use and some you couldn't see without contorting your neck in ways that would be dangerous when driving. Cruise Control for example is on a stalk behind the steering wheel but it's completely obscured by the wheel. The dials are obscured by the steering wheel unless you squat down or stretch up. The start/stop button didn't always work and in one occasion I found myself started but unable to select a drive gear. Weird.

But honestly. The driving experience was sooo nice. I think 75% of that is down to it being an EV, the rest is down to Peugeot building a really nice car if a little bit limited by some bad design choices probably to keep price low.

If I can get a demo of a Hyundai Kona then I'd love to compare it.

strtdv

I suppose the counter argument to the range issue is to ask if you actually ever had to charge it during a journey rather than routinely? It sounds like you didn't. If you had a pepper charger at home it would have been ready to go each morning.

goldtop

roundthebend said:

I don't want to say it, but the range was a big let down. Not sure why but the Peugeot just doesn't have a long range, it's about 165 miles real world compared to 260 of the similar sized Hyundai Kona. With an EV you really do need to think differently about "fuel" and I'd say a charge point at home is essential, so you can top-up whenever you park. However, super charging was fast and cheap despite being twice the unit price of my home energy provider. I got from 13% charge to 93% in about an hour, costing £14.

I've now done about 1200 miles in the Hyundai Ioniq, and I am definitely getting more confident in the range and better at predicting the 38kWh battery life. Max range is supposed to be 199 miles (from 100% on the gauge), and from 96% I got to Southend and back (150 miles) on Sunday and still had 35% battery (80 miles) left. That was with AC on, too. Haven't charged it since and still have 15% left after a couple of days of commuting.

But that was a long (well, medium distance) trip. I also did a business trip to Birmingham and planned in a 1-hr Instavolt recharge, which went fine (use 4G mobile and eat lunch while watching Netflix in the back). All other use is typical daily driving and I plug in once or twice a week at work - and that's still a so-called "granny cable" plugged into a regular 13A socket. I've bought a 7kW charger to install soon, but I could probably manage without.

So I'm relatively pleased. My head said to lease the 64kWh eNiro for its 350 mile range, but my wallet objected. 

olafgarten

goldtop said:

The problem with car-sharing schemes that allow for short-term car hire periods is that, when you rent the car, you are responsible for it during your rental. Like a normal car rental, right, but what does that mean in practice...

Well, the first thing you definitely don't do when the car arrives, or when you get to the pick-up point, is get in and drive it to where you want to go. What you immediately do with the car, is go through the list of pre-existing damage and wear that previous renters have already logged. Yes, there's a log 'book' for shared cars that must be kept up to date.

The car's not owned by each renter, so they care less about it. They're not driving a £25,000 thing around - they're driving a £100 (eg) thing around. They won't necessarily have trashed it, but the kids eat crisps and the debris is left all over the rear seats. Or when parking an unfamiliar car, they have kerbed an alloy, or picked up a stone chip on the bonnet. It gets car park dings and scuffs. Unlike your own car, where you take care to avoid getting these or just put up with them as 'patina', now you're on the hook. For damage you cause, as well as all damage by others that you fail to spot.

So you have to go through the logs to find what's newly damaged (i.e. if the process works as the car sharing scheme operator claims it does - this must logically be damage done during the last renter's slot - your job is to dob him in, so you don't bear the cost). Whereas a conventional car hire outlet has actual people that do this, it's now the your responsibility. So having read the log of prior damage, you must go all around the car and find any unrecorded issues - scuffed alloys, scratches, missing cargo covers, marks on the interior, etc. You must then log these. Some will be serious enough - depending on policy - that you can't start using the car until you speak to customer services. All this before you drive off.

If it was raining or dark when you take responsibility for the car? Too bad, you've still got to do the above. If you fail to log any new damage, it will be attributed to you. You've already agreed to this in the app's small print - that Ts & Cs link you skipped over. You most definitely cannot drive away and log the damage later. Unless you are happy to be charged for it. 

That's what I meant by 'honest and caring'. If your fellow renters are like you, then no problem. But unfortunately, they are not. The system's fairness relies on both honesty and proper diligence. I managed three hires under ZipCar (since rebranded) before this nonsense made me ditch the subscription.

As for this generation of young people being happy to subscribe to everything, I'm not convinced this will extend to car use. And if you can find any evidence that car manufacturers are keen to move to car subscription models, I'd love to see some links. (Genuinely - I'll read it with an open mind.) For sure, they love the leasing model, because it shifts more metal.

BTW, you can subscribe to EV ownership now: https://on.to/ - £559/month for a Hyundai Kona.

I think the only manufacturer currently running a subscription model is Volvo. 

Snap

I'd quite like Cybertruck. I reckon if they ever make a version that could work in British rules I'd get one. Mental, but good.
Also like the look of the Lucid Air. I mean, over 1000BHP! 

grungebob

This thread had no conclusion, why did the OP’s wife end up getting?

EricTheWeary

In the intervening two years how things have changed. Price per mile now of running an efficient hybrid is about the same as an EV charged at home. But about £10k cheaper to purchase the hybrid car. Not that there aren’t other reasons for buying an EV but they haven’t become any more attractive price wise. 

hollywoodrox

monquixote said:

goldtop said:

monquixote said:

If they can get autopilot working properly owning a car won't make sense.

You will just get a "Toyota" or "BMW" subscription and hit a button on an app for a charged up EV to appear at your doorstep when you need it. The right car for the right job.

Good question. Whether the shareholders of VAG, JLR, AM, Ferrari, etc are happy selling a fraction of the cars that they currently do...? These people are experts at lobbying.

The Other Half's brother works for a European consultancy on EV car sharing and subscription. He believes in it, but my experience of ZipCar car sharing via app was dire. I'd rather own.

They would absolutely love it.

Companies love recurring revenue and SaaS type models it's nice predictable revenue.

This is why they love PCP, service contracts and all that crap.

People like me who drop £20k cash on a car and then don't buy another one for 10 years are not what they want.

It will be huge for the environment as well as it will be in their interest to make things that last.

I think they make more money actually selling finance & hp lease type deals nowadays 
imagine the headache of having to buy so much stock every year and sell a certain amount to retain your dealership ,it’s a bit similar to people who are Gibson/fender dealers 

jellyroll

Bought a BMW i3S 6 months ago. Absolutely brilliant for nipping around London. And fast as fuck! 

JohnS37

djspecialist said:

Our 14y-old car failed its MOT a few weeks ago, and we decided it's time to replace with something newer. I'd love to go electric, but living in a terraced house in an area with practically no on-street charging infrastructure, I don't see how it can work. Which is particularly frustrating given that our typical usage (1-2 trips per week, almost always under 40 miles) would be perfect for an EV.

Is there _any_ benefit to using a hybrid which you never plug in?  I assume that the engine is able to run at peak efficiency when its just charging the battery as opposed to moving the car, but is that completely offset by the fact that (when it switches back to "traditional" mode with the ICE driving the wheels) it then has to lug all the weight of the battery and electric motor?

So I expect we'll end up with another ICE, and hope that by the next replacement (hopefully at least 5-7 years out), either there has been a significant shift towards fuel cells, or the charging infrastructure has got a whole lot better.

I have been considering a plug-in hybrid, which has the advantage that you will never have to plan your route to go near a charging station.  But the trouble with all hybrids is they aren’t very good at either - building two high performance power trains in one vehicle would be far too expensive.

crunchman

Hybrids are a waste of time.  I was stuck in traffic a few weeks back behind a hybrid, when it was really cold so you could see when the engine was on because the water vapour from the exhaust was condensing.

We spent about 5 minutes stationary, and the engine was on all the time.  Meanwhile, the stop-start petrol engine on my car was off.  The hybrid is heavier because it has batteries and two propulsion systems, so it uses a lot more energy to move.  Absolute idiocy.

Kittyfrisk

^ Stop-start won’t intervene when the engine is cold. The car’s computer knows that an engine is at its most efficient when it’s at optimal operating temperature.  The car in front of you simply might not have been running for as long as yours.
Also, it is possible to switch off a car's stop/start system. 

euan

As far as I’m aware, the only studies done show that car usage and congestion increases with AVs

EricTheWeary

crunchman said:

Hybrids are a waste of time.  I was stuck in traffic a few weeks back behind a hybrid, when it was really cold so you could see when the engine was on because the water vapour from the exhaust was condensing.

We spent about 5 minutes stationary, and the engine was on all the time.  Meanwhile, the stop-start petrol engine on my car was off.  The hybrid is heavier because it has batteries and two propulsion systems, so it uses a lot more energy to move.  Absolute idiocy.

The mild hybrids, like Toyota, are pretty good now. They charge their batteries from regenerative braking rather than from the petrol motor or from being plugged in. Claimed MPG is always difficult because the way that it is calculated makes hybrids seem better than they really are but looking at ‘real world’ tests the most fuel efficient new petrol cars on the market now are all mild hybrids. 

Some of the larger hybrids have awful MPG beyond short journeys because they are heavy and inefficient but ‘hybrid’ covers a few different systems. 

crunchman

Kittyfrisk said:

^ Stop-start won’t intervene when the engine is cold. The car’s computer knows that an engine is at its most efficient when it’s at optimal operating temperature.  The car in front of you simply might not have been running for as long as yours.
Also, it is possible to switch off a car's stop/start system. 

Given how long we were stuck in traffic, it would definitely have been up to temperature by the end of that time.

EricTheWeary said:

The mild hybrids, like Toyota, are pretty good now. They charge their batteries from regenerative braking rather than from the petrol motor or from being plugged in. Claimed MPG is always difficult because the way that it is calculated makes hybrids seem better than they really are but looking at ‘real world’ tests the most fuel efficient new petrol cars on the market now are all mild hybrids. 

Some of the larger hybrids have awful MPG beyond short journeys because they are heavy and inefficient but ‘hybrid’ covers a few different systems. 

The energy from regen braking still comes from the petrol engine.  Regen braking is not 100% efficient, and neither is using the energy you have stored to drive the motors.  On top of that, you will still lose some energy to the conventional brakes.  By the time you add the extra weight, any gains will be marginal at best.

If you are doing a lot of start/stop city driving, a hybrid might make some sense, but the marginal gains aren't going to be big enough to offset the extra cost of buying it in the first place.

roundthebend

Can't remember if I posted about this, but we rented a Renault Zoe for 6 months last year. I wanted an electric car anyway and when we ended up car-less through some unfortunate circumstances it was right when new cars were on 6 month lead times, and used cars were seriously over-priced.

So we did a monthly subscription thing with Onto which was £409 /month including insurance and charging at various places.

The car was brilliant. Bit cramped in the back due to the batteries under the feet, but it was lovely for the front occupants. Very nice ride and the performance was excellent aside from accelerating above 50mph - not terrible, just not as awesome as performance at other speeds. Wheel spins at 25mph if you got a bit trigger happy!

We only charged at home a few times when we really needed the top up for the next day. Otherwise I was able to charge at work and using the various options that were included in our deal. I'd just time my charging to coincide when I was going to the sports centre with the rapid charger in the car park.

We don't do many long journeys so it worked really well for us. One trip of 85 miles each-way did give us a bit of range anxiety, so we stopped at a Shell service station on the return journey and grabbed a coffee while we zapped some juice in.

In the end we returned it and used the monthly outlay to fund a beautifully converted VW campervan. Our circumstances mean that we only really need one vehicle for convenience (e.g. shopping, visit local family and friends) but the small electric car wasn't satisfying our itch to have a weekend campervan, Rather than have both, we went for a nicer van.

Also, in our circumstances, the cost of the EV was just too high for what we were doing with it. However, if I was commuting every day for 30-40 miles each way I think it would have been justified. I work from home most days, and my commute is only 4 miles.

I'm tempted now by an electric microcar (Citroen Ami) or a secondhand EV like the Nissan Leaf or Mitsubishi i-Miev.

bobblehat

I've had a Toyota Corrola Hybrid company car for just under 3 years. MPG has been better than expected typically averaging 47mpg in Winter and around 55mpg in the summer.This is only slightly worse than the BMW 420 Diesel that it replaced. I have ordered a Cupra Formentor plug in hybrid to replace the Corrola. I had the option of a full EV motor but as I regularly do trips of 200 miles plus they just aren't practical for me at the moment. Another thing that put me off was having to pay nearly £1200 out of my own pocket for a home charger. I'll probably not be plugging the hybrid in too often.