Martin neck bow

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  • BingMan said:
    I think the other thing here is that it might not just be a simple case of adjusting the rod... It might be being caused by the top bellying or the bridge tilting or something. If you're unsure it'd be worth getting someone who knows what to look for to give it the once over 
    Exactly, especially as the guitar is only three months old and presumably under warranty.
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  • ICBM said:
    malcolmkindness said:

    Of course I'd agree with your suggestion if it was a guitar that he had owned for years or just bought second hand, but he bought it new in a shop less than three months ago, surely he has some kind of warranty?
    A truss rod adjustment is not a warranty issue, it's a user adjustment.

    Would you drive 2-1/2 hours to take it back under warranty if a string broke? Replacing a string is at about the same level of technical difficulty as adjusting a truss rod.
    You are simply assuming that the truss rod needs adjusting, there is no proof of this whatsoever.
    You also seem to be a very rude and arrogant man who likes to argue to no purpose, I have better things to do.
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  • GTCGTC Frets: 145
    There's absolutely nothing to be frightened of about truss rod adjustments. Just go carefully.

    However Martin's factory settings for the low-E is about 3mm - and movement to 5mm sounds excessive and there may be a greater issue in play. You would expect a neck on a new Martin to move a bit in the early stages of ownership - but by less than 1mm.

    Before I got in the car I'd ring whoever I bought it from first (a) to register there might be a problem and (b) get their advice on a remedy.
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 56971

    You are simply assuming that the truss rod needs adjusting, there is no proof of this whatsoever.
    You also seem to be a very rude and arrogant man who likes to argue to no purpose, I have better things to do.
    And you have no proof whatever that it isn’t. Why not find out first before wasting everyone’s time?

    If you want to hugely overreact to what is most likely a minor setup issue then I’ll argue that you’re wrong. The purpose is to save the OP an unnecessary two and a half hour drive.

    We’ve got to a ludicrous level where any minor problem is immediately regarded as a warranty claim when there is no evidence for it at this point. By all means treat it as such if a simple adjustment doesn’t fix it.

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

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  • john_ukjohn_uk Frets: 20
    edited July 13
    Just when I thought I was done you keep coming back. 
    And you have no proof whatever that it isn’t. Why not find out first before wasting everyone’s time?
    Seriously ...will you not listen to anyone and perhaps understand a little common sense?

    If you want to hugely overreact to what is most likely a minor setup issue then I’ll argue that you’re wrong. The purpose is to save the OP an unnecessary two and a half hour drive.
    You mean like shaving a bridge saddle if you're comfortable doing so? The purpose is to fix his guitar in a safe manner. You have the priorities wrong, a two and a half hour drive to get your guitar fixed is not too demanding by any ones standard. 

    We’ve got to a ludicrous level where any minor problem is immediately regarded as a warranty claim when there is no evidence for it at this point. By all means treat it as such if a simple adjustment doesn’t fix it.

    We have got to a ludicrous level ??? Who determined that..you?? Was it all evidence based on what you think or are you going to provide evidence based references?? Where do you get all this information??? Do you just make it up as you go along??
    For someone with 30 years experience you worry me immensely that you can't reason nor listen to people and you display a complete disregard to everything said. In your own words.......
    If you want to hugely overreact to what is most likely a minor setup issue then I’ll argue that you’re wrong." That sort of sums you up I guess. In fact your nothing more than a common bully ! Stop nit picking on people!



    A little bit of info from C F Martin....
    Dear  

    Thanks you for your interest. We warrant our new guitars for life and do not include a truss rod wrench as someone might actually be tempted to try and use it which, in many cases, increases our warranty liability.

    Best Regards

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  • TeyeplayerTeyeplayer Frets: 1777
    Amigo said:
    Didn't the guitar come with its own tool?
    And miss add-on sales?

    In all seriousness, it is one of the reasons I despair with most guitar companies, truss rod tools and adjustment should be common place to guitarists -in full agreement with @icbm that this should be a simple task that all guitarists are comfortable with. I’d go so far to say, that if the op is not comfortable with truss rod adjustment, now is the time to watch a YouTube tutorial and to try it as it has a huge impact on playability. Then if there is still a problem, straight back to the shop.
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  • KilgoreKilgore Frets: 4582
    Truss rod adjustment.

    It's the first thing I learned to do on my first cheap Fender acoustic years ago. It's not rocket science, it's a simple adjustment. There are loads of YouTube tutorials to walk you through the process.

    If it doesn't improve playability then take it back to the shop if you don't feel comfortable with further adjustments like lowering the saddle. 
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 56971
    john_uk said:
    Just when I thought I was done you keep coming back.
    I thought you said you were done with this?

    To be fair, there is one thing that neither of us have mentioned yet and which I should have, so I admit I missed that.

    Check the relief. That will tell you straight away whether it’s the problem or not.

    For the OP - this is very easy, all you need to do is hold the guitar in the playing position and fret a string - I use the G since it’s in the middle of the neck - at the first fret and the first over the body (usually 15th on an acoustic). Have a look at the gap between the string and the 7th fret. If it’s about the same as the thickness of the top E string or half that of the G string, or a bit less, that’s fine. If it’s bigger than that (or no gap at all) then the truss rod does need adjusting.

    I’m not bullying anyone. I’m saying that advising that what is most likely a minor setup issue requires a warranty claim is a total overreaction borne of the myth that adjusting a truss rod is a difficult or risky job that an owner shouldn’t attempt, whereas the opposite is true.

    When I started working on guitars there was no internet and very little information anywhere for guitarists, and things like truss rods had myths attached to them which made them scared of learning that in fact, setting up a guitar is usually quite straightforward and with very few exceptions (eg cutting a nut) well within the ability of anyone with the manual dexterity to play one. It’s frustrating to find that some of these myths are still alive and well, and I want to pass on what I learned the hard way by experience so other people don’t have to, so I will call them out. That is all.

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

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  • LewyLewy Frets: 2026
    Adjusting a truss rod is analogous with changing a fuse or topping up the oil in your car. I suppose it is conceivable that someone could do harm if they approached it with absolutely no information and the wrong tools. Theoretically you could take the oil and misguidedly smear it all over the windscreen, or you could smash the back off the plug while it’s still plugged into the wall to get to the fuse holder ….that’s the kind of thing you’d have to do to damage your guitar adjusting the truss rod.
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  • KilgoreKilgore Frets: 4582
    john_uk said:
    Just when I thought I was done you keep coming back. 
    And you have no proof whatever that it isn’t. Why not find out first before wasting everyone’s time?
    Seriously ...will you not listen to anyone and perhaps understand a little common sense?

    If you want to hugely overreact to what is most likely a minor setup issue then I’ll argue that you’re wrong. The purpose is to save the OP an unnecessary two and a half hour drive.
    You mean like shaving a bridge saddle if you're comfortable doing so? The purpose is to fix his guitar in a safe manner. You have the priorities wrong, a two and a half hour drive to get your guitar fixed is not too demanding by any ones standard. 

    We’ve got to a ludicrous level where any minor problem is immediately regarded as a warranty claim when there is no evidence for it at this point. By all means treat it as such if a simple adjustment doesn’t fix it.

    We have got to a ludicrous level ??? Who determined that..you?? Was it all evidence based on what you think or are you going to provide evidence based references?? Where do you get all this information??? Do you just make it up as you go along??
    For someone with 30 years experience you worry me immensely that you can't reason nor listen to people and you display a complete disregard to everything said. In your own words.......
    " If you want to hugely overreact to what is most likely a minor setup issue then I’ll argue that you’re wrong." That sort of sums you up I guess. In fact your nothing more than a common bully ! Stop nit picking on people!



    A little bit of info from C F Martin....
    Dear  

    Thanks you for your interest. We warrant our new guitars for life and do not include a truss rod wrench as someone might actually be tempted to try and use it which, in many cases, increases our warranty liability.

    Best Regards

    I'm fairly certain that Martin only provide a (limited) lifetime warranty to guitars purchased in the US and Canada and only through authorised dealers. They will only accept warranty claims for work carried out by authorised techs. Fine if you live in North America. Not so easy elsewhere. 
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  • ToneControlToneControl Frets: 9630
    edited July 13
    AlbertC said:
    I bought a brand new Martin 00-18 in April. The neck/action was fine when I bought it.
    I picked it up today having not touched it for about 3 or 4 weeks and immediately saw the action has become very high (5mm+ on low E) and the neck has clearly bowed. Should I be concerned with a sudden shift like this? My other acoustics (kept in the same room) are all fine.
    Presumably the shop I bought it would remedy this for free but it's probably a 2 hour 30 min round trip. Should I just by the necessary truss rod adjustment tool and do it myself?


    We've had extremely high humidity at some points over the last few weeks

    As a long term tactic, you should have a truss rod tool for each of your guitars, because adjustments will be necessary, and driving for hours to make an adjustment is a bit like driving 3 hours to get someone to change the wiper blades on your car

    As far as I understand, manufacturers expect guitarists to make normal adjustments to truss rods, hence making them user-accessible. I adjust the truss rod on almost every new guitar I buy, once I have let it settle down in my house for a few days (unless it's way out).
    Larrivee included a truss rod tool with every guitar I bought, as do many other manufacturers.

    As a short term thing: it seems most likely that the guitar was stored somewhere dry before you bought it. The first thing the shop would do is try tightening the truss rod, that's its function. Watch youtube videos of people examining neck relief, look down the neck from the headstock, compare it with your other guitars, is it like other examples? Tighten it 1/8 of a turn, then look again.

    btw have you changed the strings for a higher gauge? Just checking

    The best first step with an issue like this is to do research and ask for advice, which is what you have done. Happily nowadays you can watch youtube videos on stuff to reduce risk of misunderstandings and errors

    Personally I've recently decided that two 1 hour journeys to drop off and collect a guitar just to get the nut slots tweaked to stop sticking is a waste of time and money, and I bought a set of nut slot files. I think anyone with a few guitars should buy a set, if they are DIY-minded. However, that's a world away from truss rod adjustment, any guitarist should be able to understand and use the tools to adjust neck relief, and the action on an electric.

    As our expert ICBM says, adjusting the saddle on an acoustic is a couple of levels up from tweaking the truss rod. Basically because it's not as reversible. It's still pretty simple though, but easier to get wrong. 

    If you're not used to assessing the gap with the relief test by eye, try this:
    Put the guitar flat on your lap, fret first string (bottom E) with left little finger
    fret first fret after the body join with right little finger
    tap around halfway in between with either thumb
    do this on all your guitars, get a feel for what is normal (which is that it makes a tapping noise, but with very little movement)
    then try it on this new guitar, if it's a lot further down before the thumb tap reaches the fret, then the relief is too high. As I said, you can look down the neck and see this too, compare it with your functioning guitars


    I'd recommend tweaking the truss rod. Also getting a hygrometer to monitor humidity in your guitar room
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  • ToneControlToneControl Frets: 9630
    re: myths


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  • crunchmancrunchman Frets: 7798
    Adjusting a truss rod isn't hard.  Make sure you get the right tool though.  You don't want to damage the nut.

    Do it an 8th of a turn at a time, and see what it looks like.

    I do slacken the strings a bit if I'm tightening the rod, but I might be being over cautious there.

    I did get a bit nervous adjusting the rod on a Custom Shop Tele once, but that was because it was a vintage style body end adjustment, and I had to loosen the neck screws to get at the adjustment.
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  • It always amazes me how quickly this type of discussion drifts off course, let's try and bring it back on.

    The OP has a practically brand new Martin which, over the past three weeks, has developed a significant action problem. He wonders if he should try to adjust the truss rod himself as he considers a 2 1/2 hour round trip back to the shop to be a lot of trouble. An "expert" on here says an emphatic yes, so now we have a discussion about the means and the merits of adjusting truss rods rather than wondering what might actually be causing the problem.

    I have been playing acoustic guitar for nearly sixty years and I could count on the fingers of one hand the number of times I have had to adjust a truss rod, if I bring a guitar to a country with a significantly different climate, for example. As a general rule a well set up guitar should not require regular truss rod adjustments unless the environment is altered dramatically.

    The OP seems to have lost interest in this discussion already, but if he is still around, I would strongly recommend returning the guitar to the shop and having an expert look at it and hopefully diagnose the problem.
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  • "The best first step with an issue like this is to do research and ask for advice, which is what you have done. Happily nowadays you can watch youtube videos on stuff to reduce risk of misunderstandings and errors."

    As I have said before, this is fine if you have a cheap second hand guitar and want to make it more playable, but the OP is talking about a Martin 0018 less than three months old, bought new from a shop!
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  • ToneControlToneControl Frets: 9630
    "The best first step with an issue like this is to do research and ask for advice, which is what you have done. Happily nowadays you can watch youtube videos on stuff to reduce risk of misunderstandings and errors."

    As I have said before, this is fine if you have a cheap second hand guitar and want to make it more playable, but the OP is talking about a Martin 0018 less than three months old, bought new from a shop!
    I've done more adjustments than that on brand new, more expensive guitars
    All down to the individual, but I wouldn't go on a 3 or 4 hour round trip to get basic adjustments done
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  • crunchmancrunchman Frets: 7798
    "The best first step with an issue like this is to do research and ask for advice, which is what you have done. Happily nowadays you can watch youtube videos on stuff to reduce risk of misunderstandings and errors."

    As I have said before, this is fine if you have a cheap second hand guitar and want to make it more playable, but the OP is talking about a Martin 0018 less than three months old, bought new from a shop!

    New guitars can take a while to settle in.  There may also have been a change in atmospheric conditions.  Maybe the shop was storing the guitar in a cold, dry warehouse, and the OP's house is quite humid.

    Checking the neck relief, and adjusting the truss rod if necessary, is the sensible thing to do.  If he checks the neck relief, and it turns out that the truss rod doesn't need adjusting, then there is definitely a problem, and it needs to go back.

    He also needs to check that there isn't significant bellying of the top.

    However, the likelihood is that a truss rod adjustment will go a long way towards fixing it.

    It's possible the saddle will need a reduction in height as well.  Guitars tend to come from the factory with a reasonably high action and the manufacturers will err on the side of the saddle being a bit high.  Some players like their action high, and it's easy to take material off of a saddle if necessary.  To raise the action you would ideally need a new saddle, which is much more of an issue, so they generally come new with the saddle quite high, with room to reduce it if necessary.

    It's very unlikely for a new Martin to have a structural problem, and almost certain that this can be fixed through a combination of a truss rod adjustment and the saddle height being reduced if necessary.  If the OP is happy to drive for two and half hours and spend twice as much on fuel as a truss rod wrench would cost, then that's his prerogative, but if it was me, I'd give it a tweak myself first.  As others have said repeatedly in this thread, every guitarist should learn how to check relief and adjust a truss rod.  It's not difficult.
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  • ToneControlToneControl Frets: 9630
    It always amazes me how quickly this type of discussion drifts off course, let's try and bring it back on.

    The OP has a practically brand new Martin which, over the past three weeks, has developed a significant action problem. He wonders if he should try to adjust the truss rod himself as he considers a 2 1/2 hour round trip back to the shop to be a lot of trouble. An "expert" on here says an emphatic yes, so now we have a discussion about the means and the merits of adjusting truss rods rather than wondering what might actually be causing the problem.

    I have been playing acoustic guitar for nearly sixty years and I could count on the fingers of one hand the number of times I have had to adjust a truss rod, if I bring a guitar to a country with a significantly different climate, for example. As a general rule a well set up guitar should not require regular truss rod adjustments unless the environment is altered dramatically.

    The OP seems to have lost interest in this discussion already, but if he is still around, I would strongly recommend returning the guitar to the shop and having an expert look at it and hopefully diagnose the problem.
    I wouldn't think it was appropriate to diminish someone's expertise by the use of inverted commas after he has been working in that job for 30 years, and given that he is widely respected by many. If the OP lived considerably further North, and followed your advice, it would be ICBM being the expert in the shop who was then asked to check the guitar, Getting free advice on here from him is very generous
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  • "The best first step with an issue like this is to do research and ask for advice, which is what you have done. Happily nowadays you can watch youtube videos on stuff to reduce risk of misunderstandings and errors."

    As I have said before, this is fine if you have a cheap second hand guitar and want to make it more playable, but the OP is talking about a Martin 0018 less than three months old, bought new from a shop!
    I've done more adjustments than that on brand new, more expensive guitars
    All down to the individual, but I wouldn't go on a 3 or 4 hour round trip to get basic adjustments done
    He actually stated "a 2 1/2 hour round trip" and we have no way of knowing that it requires only a basic adjustment, it sounds quite serious to me in a brand new guitar!
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  • It always amazes me how quickly this type of discussion drifts off course, let's try and bring it back on.

    The OP has a practically brand new Martin which, over the past three weeks, has developed a significant action problem. He wonders if he should try to adjust the truss rod himself as he considers a 2 1/2 hour round trip back to the shop to be a lot of trouble. An "expert" on here says an emphatic yes, so now we have a discussion about the means and the merits of adjusting truss rods rather than wondering what might actually be causing the problem.

    I have been playing acoustic guitar for nearly sixty years and I could count on the fingers of one hand the number of times I have had to adjust a truss rod, if I bring a guitar to a country with a significantly different climate, for example. As a general rule a well set up guitar should not require regular truss rod adjustments unless the environment is altered dramatically.

    The OP seems to have lost interest in this discussion already, but if he is still around, I would strongly recommend returning the guitar to the shop and having an expert look at it and hopefully diagnose the problem.
    I wouldn't think it was appropriate to diminish someone's expertise by the use of inverted commas after he has been working in that job for 30 years, and given that he is widely respected by many. If the OP lived considerably further North, and followed your advice, it would be ICBM being the expert in the shop who was then asked to check the guitar, Getting free advice on here from him is very generous
    If the free advice without seeing the guitar, is the one word "yes" then I think I'll pass thank you.
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