Saving the planet / IPCC report on Climate Change Aug ‘21

Hottubes

You're never going to stop the Sun giving off solar flares, which can alter the planets axis. Which in turn will effect the poles, and the ice caps may shift their positions. How's our Green taxes going to stop that. Maybe Branson and Bezos can fly up to the ozone layer and paper over the hole for us with the plebs £20 notes.

I am all for cutting down on pollution and recycling, and we can all play our part in that.

What gets me is don't these climate zealots look around and see the efforts already in place.

Where i live there's wind farms of the coast and a giant solar farm, also nearly every council house has solar panels on it also. We also have air source and ground source heating in some properties as there's never been gas in some rural areas.

viz

Hottubes said:

You're never going to stop the Sun giving off solar flares, which can alter the planets axis. Which in turn will effect the poles, and the ice caps may shift their positions. How's our Green taxes going to stop that. Maybe Branson and Bezos can fly up to the ozone layer and paper over the hole for us with the plebs £20 notes.

I am all for cutting down on pollution and recycling, and we can all play our part in that.

What gets me is don't these climate zealots look around and see the efforts already in place.

Where i live there's wind farms of the coast and a giant solar farm, also nearly every council house has solar panels on it also. We also have air source and ground source heating in some properties as there's never been gas in some rural areas.

Which climate zealots?

Hottubes

viz said:

Hottubes said:

You're never going to stop the Sun giving off solar flares, which can alter the planets axis. Which in turn will effect the poles, and the ice caps may shift their positions. How's our Green taxes going to stop that. Maybe Branson and Bezos can fly up to the ozone layer and paper over the hole for us with the plebs £20 notes.

I am all for cutting down on pollution and recycling, and we can all play our part in that.

What gets me is don't these climate zealots look around and see the efforts already in place.

Where i live there's wind farms of the coast and a giant solar farm, also nearly every council house has solar panels on it also. We also have air source and ground source heating in some properties as there's never been gas in some rural areas.

Which climate zealots?

LastMantra

It's easy to say yeah but look at the big companies and things that are much worse than me? But I think you can only do what you can yourself. Be the change and all that. If we all done that the big fish would need to follow eventually. 

I do think some people could do with working on having a bit of control over the desire to buy stuff. It's nice to get a new toy but it can end up becoming like an addiction to that "buzz".

viz

Hottubes said:

viz said:

Hottubes said:

You're never going to stop the Sun giving off solar flares, which can alter the planets axis. Which in turn will effect the poles, and the ice caps may shift their positions. How's our Green taxes going to stop that. Maybe Branson and Bezos can fly up to the ozone layer and paper over the hole for us with the plebs £20 notes.

I am all for cutting down on pollution and recycling, and we can all play our part in that.

What gets me is don't these climate zealots look around and see the efforts already in place.

Where i live there's wind farms of the coast and a giant solar farm, also nearly every council house has solar panels on it also. We also have air source and ground source heating in some properties as there's never been gas in some rural areas.

Which climate zealots?

I expect those people already do use solar and wind energy as much as they can though, and out of choice too, not neccessity. I think they stand firm with those who have solar and geothermal heating, not against them. I mean, I’m sure I’m not in the group that you call climate zealots, and even I use those resources! As do the people who live where you do. So I think you can assume they do. I don’t understand your point at all. 

ThePrettyDamned

I guess rather than thinking "this will be the end of the world anyway so whatever" it's more relevant to ask questions about what you want to pay for food, how easily you want to be able to source food/water, how easy it is to source materials to build homes, whether you want to reduce respiratory illnesses, whether you're okay to risk more new diseases coming from the encroachment of nature during a period where antibiotics are becoming less effective, whether you're happy for antibiotics to become ever less effective through use on livestock.

Climate change is one facet of a much bigger problem. Yes, it's a big piece of it, but it's interlinked with an enormous number of complex systems. Think of the suez canal incident and covid, and the severe disruption that causes to supply chains globally (as well as the economic impact). Covid is a disease that came from encroachment on nature (probably), just like sars and ebola were. The suez canal incident was mere human error but caused enormous disruption (that is ongoing today) - but it could just as easily been caused by climate influenced change. 

I want a future to be easier and happier and better, and I believe part of that means being ecologically aware as well as economically aware.

I also think there is future wealth in a green economy that will be perhaps harder to come by from more traditional extractive-based organisations such as fossil fuels. This is an ongoing debate and there is no right or wrong yet - but continuing to accelerate climate change will likely also accelerate poverty, war, terrorism and supply chain limitations (which could easily be the root for all the previous points).

ronnyb

What gets me about this whole climate change discussion is that anybody who dares to give an alternative view or challenges the opinions of the so called scientific experts is immediately rubbished. I wonder if the experts are the same ones who advised the government in the not too distant past that diesel cars were better for the environment than the petrol equivalent.   

Greatape

Hottubes said:

You're never going to stop the Sun giving off solar flares, which can alter the planets axis. Which in turn will effect the poles, and the ice caps may shift their positions. How's our Green taxes going to stop that. Maybe Branson and Bezos can fly up to the ozone layer and paper over the hole for us with the plebs £20 notes.

I am all for cutting down on pollution and recycling, and we can all play our part in that.

What gets me is don't these climate zealots look around and see the efforts already in place.

Where i live there's wind farms of the coast and a giant solar farm, also nearly every council house has solar panels on it also. We also have air source and ground source heating in some properties as there's never been gas in some rural areas.

Solar flares affecting the Earth's axis of rotation?

Would be interested to see any papers on this.

 https://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/sunearth/solar-events-news/Does-the-Solar-Cycle-Affect-Earths-Climate.html

https://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/sunearth/news/flare-impacts.html

I broadly agree that the focus should be on corporations and govts, although we as individuals also need to be ready to change our behaviour in some ways. 

ThePrettyDamned

ronnyb said:

What gets me about this whole climate change discussion is that anybody who dares to give an alternative view or challenges the opinions of the so called scientific experts is immediately rubbished. I wonder if the experts are the same ones who advised the government in the not too distant past that diesel cars were better for the environment than the petrol equivalent.   

They probably were not. It wasn't news at the time that diesels were poor, and the decision to reduce taxation on them was widely criticised in the scientific community. 

Is there a discussion as to whether climate change is happening anyway? That's not really up for discussion, the facts are in and measured daily. The discussion is what can be reversed, what can be mitigated and what will ensure a safer, healthier and more prosperous future for people.

I genuinely believe humans can do better and be happier. 

Hottubes

ronnyb said:

What gets me about this whole climate change discussion is that anybody who dares to give an alternative view or challenges the opinions of the so called scientific experts is immediately rubbished. I wonder if the experts are the same ones who advised the government in the not too distant past that diesel cars were better for the environment than the petrol equivalent.   

Yes, and just because someone may not believe in MAN Made climate change, doesn't mean they don't care about the planet or clean seas. Or they don't Recycle, or walk instead of taking the car. etc

Greatape

ronnyb said:

What gets me about this whole climate change discussion is that anybody who dares to give an alternative view or challenges the opinions of the so called scientific experts is immediately rubbished. I wonder if the experts are the same ones who advised the government in the not too distant past that diesel cars were better for the environment than the petrol equivalent.   

Alternative,peer reviewed research - sure, let's have it. 

Twats like Delingpole spouting uneducated bollocks - no

Greatape

LastMantra said:

It's easy to say yeah but look at the big companies and things that are much worse than me? But I think you can only do what you can yourself. Be the change and all that. If we all done that the big fish would need to follow eventually. 

I do think some people could do with working on having a bit of control over the desire to buy stuff. It's nice to get a new toy but it can end up becoming like an addiction to that "buzz".

You could make a fairly strong argument that much of our present predicament is down to a debt-based money system requiring constant growth, which in turn created a turbo-charged consumer culture. 
 

ThePrettyDamned

Here is a nice article that's not scientific language about a real-world tracked rewinding project that did not use much (or any) human intervention. Nature finds a way!

https://theconversation.com/amp/monks-wood-wilderness-60-years-ago-scientists-let-a-farm-field-rewild-heres-what-happened-163406

In a similar vein, we persuaded a neighbour to just neglect a square metre of their garden. It's now full of wildflowers, insects and has reduced the number of pests they encounter (possibly because of increased diversity and predation). All they did was clear the old, rubbish looking plants and add a layer of compost to help the soil underneath recover a bit. The rest was done by nature - birds and the wind I would think.

I wonder whether there is a similar experiment in rainforest areas, to see how effectively we can rewild by prevention human intervention. 

viz

ThePrettyDamned said:

Here is a nice article that's not scientific language about a real-world tracked rewinding project that did not use much (or any) human intervention. Nature finds a way!

https://theconversation.com/amp/monks-wood-wilderness-60-years-ago-scientists-let-a-farm-field-rewild-heres-what-happened-163406

In a similar vein, we persuaded a neighbour to just neglect a square metre of their garden. It's now full of wildflowers, insects and has reduced the number of pests they encounter (possibly because of increased diversity and predation). All they did was clear the old, rubbish looking plants and add a layer of compost to help the soil underneath recover a bit. The rest was done by nature - birds and the wind I would think.

I wonder whether there is a similar experiment in rainforest areas, to see how effectively we can rewild by prevention human intervention. 

That’s awesome. That’s what needs to happen, obviously. There is a bloke who got a little eco world flourishing in a corked jar with only one uncorking, adding water and recorking in the 1970s. Fascinating. 

viz

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2267504/The-sealed-bottle-garden-thriving-40-years-fresh-air-water.html

YellowLedBetterMan

I think it's brilliant when people say "the big corporations need to do it, not me" when it's their money being spunked on BP oil, sweatshop-made footwear and new smartphones.

My class at university did a little project where we ranked what we thought the main reason for anthropogenic (for the idiot before who was all "we can't stop solar flares", as if that was ever part of the debate - "anthropogenic" is the academic way of saying "human induced") climate change was currently. We almost unanimously agreed it was a case of tragedy of the commons.

Hottubes

YellowLedBetterMan said:

I think it's brilliant when people say "the big corporations need to do it, not me" when it's their money being spunked on BP oil, sweatshop-made footwear and new smartphones.

My class at university did a little project where we ranked what we thought the main reason for anthropogenic (for the idiot before who was all "we can't stop solar flares", as if that was ever part of the debate - "anthropogenic" is the academic way of saying "human induced") climate change was currently. We almost unanimously agreed it was a case of tragedy of the commons.

Thanks for calling me an idiot, solar flares effect the climate FACT.

https://prepareforchange.net/2019/09/15/nasa-climate-change-caused-by-changes-in-earths-solar-orbit-and-axial-tilt-not-man-made-causes/

ThePrettyDamned

Hottubes said:

YellowLedBetterMan said:

I think it's brilliant when people say "the big corporations need to do it, not me" when it's their money being spunked on BP oil, sweatshop-made footwear and new smartphones.

My class at university did a little project where we ranked what we thought the main reason for anthropogenic (for the idiot before who was all "we can't stop solar flares", as if that was ever part of the debate - "anthropogenic" is the academic way of saying "human induced") climate change was currently. We almost unanimously agreed it was a case of tragedy of the commons.

Thanks for calling me an idiot, solar flares effect the climate FACT.

https://prepareforchange.net/2019/09/15/nasa-climate-change-caused-by-changes-in-earths-solar-orbit-and-axial-tilt-not-man-made-causes/

I probably wouldn't use a site that calls anthropogenic climate change a "hoax" as a source. 

Hottubes

I guess NASA  are cowboys then.

ThePrettyDamned

Hottubes said:

I guess NASA  are cowboys then.

@Hottubes that website isn't NASA... It's someone with an agenda taking NASA words and twisting THEM to suit. 

Here is something from NASA. A couple of years old, but I can't be bothered to spend my Sunday digging out peer-reviewed research.

https://climate.nasa.gov/blog/2910/what-is-the-suns-role-in-climate-change/