Saving the planet / IPCC report on Climate Change Aug ‘21

Jonathangus

Hottubes said:

YellowLedBetterMan said:

I think it's brilliant when people say "the big corporations need to do it, not me" when it's their money being spunked on BP oil, sweatshop-made footwear and new smartphones.

My class at university did a little project where we ranked what we thought the main reason for anthropogenic (for the idiot before who was all "we can't stop solar flares", as if that was ever part of the debate - "anthropogenic" is the academic way of saying "human induced") climate change was currently. We almost unanimously agreed it was a case of tragedy of the commons.

Thanks for calling me an idiot, solar flares effect the climate FACT.

https://prepareforchange.net/2019/09/15/nasa-climate-change-caused-by-changes-in-earths-solar-orbit-and-axial-tilt-not-man-made-causes/

So as supporting evidence, you offer a site mentioning 'The Sisterhood of the Rose', 'The Goddess Vortex and Transmuting all Darkness' and 'High Vibrational Foods'?

I'm out.

(And it's 'affect', not 'effect'.)

Stratavarious

The relationship between solar activity, orbit and climate are throughly understood.... except by completely ignorant tools, it seems.

It is what all the ocean sediment and ice cores, dendrochronology and a bunch of other parallel studies seek and show.

The hoax narrative is LIE BY OMISSION.  The temperature has gone way off pattern massively since the 70’s/80’s.  This is what caused alarm bells in the first place, we should actually be on our way to a mini ice age as solar output is in decline and has been for a few decades.    We had a mini late 1800’s ice age.. many alpine peaks were climbed with lots of snow and ice that has now all virtually gone and the Thames would freeze.

Source: NASA

Hottubes

https://climatechangedispatch.com/astrophysicist-solar-activity-global-climate/

YellowLedBetterMan

Hottubes said:

YellowLedBetterMan said:

I think it's brilliant when people say "the big corporations need to do it, not me" when it's their money being spunked on BP oil, sweatshop-made footwear and new smartphones.

My class at university did a little project where we ranked what we thought the main reason for anthropogenic (for the idiot before who was all "we can't stop solar flares", as if that was ever part of the debate - "anthropogenic" is the academic way of saying "human induced") climate change was currently. We almost unanimously agreed it was a case of tragedy of the commons.

Thanks for calling me an idiot, solar flares effect the climate FACT.

https://prepareforchange.net/2019/09/15/nasa-climate-change-caused-by-changes-in-earths-solar-orbit-and-axial-tilt-not-man-made-causes/

Oh I don't dispute that solar activity impacts climate. Solar activity is the driver of every climate feature in a roundabout way. So are Milankovitch cycles (or to be fair to the people that Milutin Milankovic stole the research from, Adhemar-Croll Cycles).

BUT, and it is a big but, more recent examples of climate change are undoubtedly linked to human activity. There is simply too much data confirming the correlation between carbon content within the atmosphere, human industrial activity, and global average temperatures.

This itself isn't new either - foraminifera, geological and ice core data seems to suggest that there was an increase in carbon dioxide levels and also global temperatures during the agricultural revolution. Intense land use change (IE - rapid and irreversible degradation and destruction of carbon stores) in Mesopotamia, the Nile and Indus Valley regions is probably why this happened. Again, there's too much evidence of a correlation to dismiss it as coincidence.

So I shall continue to call out idiocy whenever I see it. There are people out there far more intelligent than you or I, or the laptop scientists that create stories like the one you have linked as "evidence". When such intelligent people are unanimously in agreement over a subject, it serves you well to listen.

YellowLedBetterMan

Stratavarious said:

The relationship between solar activity, orbit and climate are throughly understood.... except by completely ignorant tools, it seems.

It is what all the ocean sediment and ice cores, dendrochronology and a bunch of other parallel studies seek and show.

The hoax narrative is LIE BY OMISSION.  The temperature has gone way off pattern massively since the 70’s/80’s.  This is what caused alarm bells in the first place, we should actually be on our way to a mini ice age as solar output is in decline and has been for a few decades.    We had a mini late 1800’s ice age.. many alpine peaks were climbed with lots of snow and ice that has now all virtually gone and the Thames would freeze.

Source: NASA

Speaking of ice ages, we modelled in uni what would happen if so much of the ice in and around Greenland and North East Canada was to melt into the Hudson Bay.

If temperatures increase under an RCP8.5 scenario (admittedly, "worst case scenario" according the the IPCC), and land-based ice within this region was to melt accordingly, then by 2050 it would've deposited enough cold freshwater into the North Atlantic (and thus, the gulf stream) to maybe cause an ice age in Europe. The likelihood of it actually happening is *very* slim given that there are a lot of things that would have to happen to make it possible, but it's still interesting nonetheless.

more

Back in the 1970's I was a member of the  people party , it was a political party that campaigned for zero growth and to develop a sustainable life style. It changed it's name and become the Ecology party. The  Ecology  party did have some success, but I believe it's mostly  middle class membership started to feel  things were not so bad . The support for zero growth became an issue , especially if it meant not being able to drive a car , go on holiday abrourd and living a ever increasing  wealthier  life  The  name was changed to the Green party and most of the original zero growth  ideas were dropped  . Before that happened I had  moved to India. After a couple of years there I realized the western world has eaten  all the pies . We will not   solve the  problem of the growing  population and the demands on resources.  The ecological collapse is unavoidable. 

WiresDreamDisasters

I don't support zero growth, and never will. Zero growth is literally a pathway to global famine and death and destruction.

We don't have a population growth problem. We're not making enough people, full stop. What we have is a distribution problem, and a hoarding problem.

viz

WiresDreamDisasters said:

I don't support zero growth, and never will. Zero growth is literally a pathway to global famine and death and destruction.

We don't have a population growth problem. We're not making enough people, full stop. What we have is a distribution problem, and a hoarding problem.

I think you’re right, for now (ie next few thousand years hopefully). There’s plenty to eat, there’s plenty of water. We’re just greedy, or some of us are. Those people think they’re above the system, not in the middle of it. 

In time of course it will become a population problem because there’s only 700b tonnes of carbon to make life with, of which half is currently “awake” as life, so at some point everything will want to eat everything else and there won’t be enough to go round and the dominant species will find themselves being overpopulated and will have to rebalance. 

But not yet. 

Fretwired

viz said:

I'd like to go much much further, but it starts to get hard and I'm weak - but I'm interested in things other forumites are doing that perhaps we could adopt.

What am I doing?

Working from home - no commute.

Walking rather than using my car.

Making things last - my car was purchased new and is nearly 10 years old. I'll keep it running for as long as I can. My iPhone is ancient, but still works - who really needs to change their phone because Apple or Samsung brings out a new one? Same goes for the TV.

I've stopped buying stuff - liberating. I've stopped thinking 'I need that guitar/pedal/iPad or whatever' - even my TV is basic. Saved me a fortune.

I don't use Amazon and I don't buy anything made in China unless there's no alternative. I've even stopped using Google.

My food comes from the UK/EU to reduce the food miles.

Looks like I'm returning to being a hippy as I head towards my mid-sixties. Funny thing is some of my friends are doing the same. Simpler lives cut the tech and the tat you don't need.

But if you think going electric for cars is to save the planet then you are deluded. It's all about big business and new opportunities for elites to make money. If we wanted to save the planet then we'd change our lives - ban cars in big cities and use public transport which could be free. Work locally rather than commute into the big city. If you work in London why not live there? Ban property ownership - state controlled housing with fair rents. Young people can't afford houses nor high rents.

But no we'd rather live in a world in which billionaires own key industies and business sectors and control our lives. Greedy property developers want to build on the greenbelt.

I suspect the planet/mother nature will work out we're vermin past our sell by date and wipe us out .. :-)

viz

Fretwired said:

viz said:

I'd like to go much much further, but it starts to get hard and I'm weak - but I'm interested in things other forumites are doing that perhaps we could adopt.

What am I doing?

Working from home - no commute.

Walking rather than using my car.

Making things last - my car was purchased new and is nearly 10 years old. I'll keep it running for as long as I can. My iPhone is ancient, but still works - who really needs to change their phone because Apple or Samsung brings out a new one? Same goes for the TV.

I've stopped buying stuff - liberating. I've stopped thinking 'I need that guitar/pedal/iPad or whatever' - even my TV is basic. Saved me a fortune.

I don't use Amazon and I don't buy anything made in China unless there's no alternative. I've even stopped using Google.

My food comes from the UK/EU to reduce the food miles.

Looks like I'm returning to being a hippy as I head towards my mid-sixties. Funny thing is some of my friends are doing the same. Simpler lives cut the tech and the tat you don't need.

But if you think going electric for cars is to save the planet then you are deluded. It's all about big business and new opportunities for elites to make money. If we wanted to save the planet then we'd change our lives - ban cars in big cities and use public transport which could be free. Work locally rather than commute into the big city. If you work in London why not live there? Ban property ownership - state controlled housing with fair rents. Young people can't afford houses nor high rents.

But no we'd rather live in a world in which billionaires own key industies and business sectors and control our lives. Greedy property developers want to build on the greenbelt.

I suspect the planet/mother nature will work out we're vermin past our sell by date and wipe us out .. :-)

Great!!!

Re. car, we are going to get the smallest 2nd hand one we can find, all our electricity is from windmills, so no prob there. I left my London job 2 years ago and got a job 22 minutes’ cycle ride away. Love it. We live in Cambridge so hardly use the car anyway. We don’t currently have one that works and have been hiring one when we need it, but it’s prohibitively expensive, so electric it is. Do you think that’s a good idea? Thanks for the suggestions. 

viz

Soooo. The IPCC report seems to have a fair bit of political consensus behind it. 

Maybe today’s the day the turnaround begins!

WiresDreamDisasters

I'm sure Whiney_Shit will find that funny too, Viz.

Emp_Fab

Humans are collectively far too selfish and short-sighted to do anything likely to save our species from environmental extinction.

It's pointless even trying.  All we are doing is prolonging our own demise.  Fuck it...  we may as well go out in a blaze of stupidity.

WiresDreamDisasters

Emp_Fab said:

Humans are collectively far too selfish and short-sighted to do anything likely to save our species from environmental extinction.

It's pointless even trying.  All we are doing is prolonging our own demise.  Fuck it...  we may as well go out in a blaze of stupidity.

You first!

mgaw

I'm off to Scotland to hunker down 

Danny1969

Apparently north Europe is gonna get a lot  wetter and a bit hotter, so we will probably be OK for fires but we might have to start thinking about electric boats rather than electric cars

viz

Emp_Fab said:

Humans are collectively far too selfish and short-sighted to do anything likely to save our species from environmental extinction.

It's pointless even trying.  All we are doing is prolonging our own demise.  Fuck it...  we may as well go out in a blaze of stupidity.

We will do something about it. There’s no choice. We’ve been heading to this point for 30, 40, 50 years and the message has been getting more and more unavoidable. So I do believe nations will come together to sort it out, even if they only do the bare minimum.

Maybe one good thing that’s come out of Covid as that it’s shown us that it’s possible for the planet to act basically as one. I know there have been massive differences and inequalities, but when there’s a global issue, and now that there’s global scrutiny, most world leaders can bring themselves to stumble along together in a roughly straight line. 

Dontgiveupyourdayjob

Emp_Fab said:

Humans are collectively far too selfish and short-sighted to do anything likely to save our species from environmental extinction.

It's pointless even trying.  All we are doing is prolonging our own demise.  Fuck it...  we may as well go out in a blaze of stupidity.

That's the spirit! 

WiresDreamDisasters

viz said:

most world leaders can bring themselves to stumble along together in a roughly straight line. 

Just like the zombies they are!

LastMantra

ThePrettyDamned said:

Here is a nice article that's not scientific language about a real-world tracked rewinding project that did not use much (or any) human intervention. Nature finds a way!

https://theconversation.com/amp/monks-wood-wilderness-60-years-ago-scientists-let-a-farm-field-rewild-heres-what-happened-163406

In a similar vein, we persuaded a neighbour to just neglect a square metre of their garden. It's now full of wildflowers, insects and has reduced the number of pests they encounter (possibly because of increased diversity and predation). All they did was clear the old, rubbish looking plants and add a layer of compost to help the soil underneath recover a bit. The rest was done by nature - birds and the wind I would think.

I wonder whether there is a similar experiment in rainforest areas, to see how effectively we can rewild by prevention human intervention. 

The only thing is that humans are part of the ecosystem so you can't just take them out of the equation. Well....

There was an old experiment where they took an area of rainforest didn't allow any human interference with it. The only thing was that they kicked the indigenous people out too. Things didn't work out how they expected.
The indigenous people were having an effect on the environment and, certainly from their perspective, generally a positive one.