Return of the Rapier 33

guitars4you

^^^^^^ @DrumBob - I think that during the early days of pop and rock'n'roll that the market place was far more 'local based' - In Europe the 'beginner/budget' based guitars came mainly from European and/or British builders - Hofner, Watkins, Fenton Weil, Framus, Futurama etc and very few of these, back in the day, would have entered the USA via a recognized distributor - Many would be sold in shops some via the catalogues like Bells - I know the reverse is true of the USA with the catalogue guitars from the likes of Sears - Stella, Harmony, Silvertone 

Good article here https://tedium.co/2020/03/12/sears-harmony-department-store-guitar-history/ with loads of additional links via Dave Buck - Some may well find this history interesting

Voxman

I think someone should tell Andertons that the new 33 is not a Watkins guitar!

https://www.andertons.co.uk/guitar-dept/electric-guitars/best-electric-guitars-under-500/watkins-rapier-33-electric-guitar-daphne-blue

Teflon

Voxman said:

I think someone should tell Andertons that the new 33 is not a Watkins guitar!

https://www.andertons.co.uk/guitar-dept/electric-guitars/best-electric-guitars-under-500/watkins-rapier-33-electric-guitar-daphne-blue

A good point. They also seem to think that Alan Entwistle was responsible for the original Watkins Rapier going by their first line !  Doesn't say much for their product knowledge.

guitars4you

Teflon said:

Voxman said:

I think someone should tell Andertons that the new 33 is not a Watkins guitar!

https://www.andertons.co.uk/guitar-dept/electric-guitars/best-electric-guitars-under-500/watkins-rapier-33-electric-guitar-daphne-blue

A good point. They also seem to think that Alan Entwistle was responsible for the original Watkins Rapier going by their first line !  Doesn't say much for their product knowledge.

Both errors made me chuckle - I dare say none of us are fallible, but it appears to be just the web 'programmer' taking  the original JHS press release/product info and putting their slant on it 

JamesSGBrown

roberty said:

Might get one just to annoy people in this thread. @JamesSGBrown what's the neck like mate? 

9.5" radius, fairly flat but not too wide. I'd say like a slim C. Very comfortable.

equalsql

A young Danny Kirwan sporting the beast that he played in the early years of Fleetwood Mac.

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-SFo2Retp5R8/XyKYr5H8e2I/AAAAAAAAFp4/EV0b-a2M3z4RfO6Iqmc2XlkK3uTMa4jXwCLcBGAsYHQ/s1146/20200723_170935.jpg

roberty

JamesSGBrown said:

roberty said:

Might get one just to annoy people in this thread. @JamesSGBrown what's the neck like mate? 

9.5" radius, fairly flat but not too wide. I'd say like a slim C. Very comfortable.

Cool ta. Slim is not my preference but for £400 I could probably live with it. The targetburst one looks best to me

JamesSGBrown

roberty said:

JamesSGBrown said:

roberty said:

Might get one just to annoy people in this thread. @JamesSGBrown what's the neck like mate? 

9.5" radius, fairly flat but not too wide. I'd say like a slim C. Very comfortable.

Cool ta. Slim is not my preference but for £400 I could probably live with it. The targetburst one looks best to me

Yeah the 'burst is done very well. I love a good targetburst, nice and yellow in the middle.

Zoonyboy

Am I alone in thinking that they weren't all THAT bad? I still have my Rapier 22 bought secondhand in 1969 for £11.00. It played, didn't choke out and had a decent action for eleven quid. I do admit my first Stratocaster was better, and cost ten times as much, but I remain fond of the Watkins. I learned a lot that you could never do on a Hofner Senator. Having said all that, it remains stored and will most likely never be played again by me, but, you know, I once thought I may upgrade to a 44.

guitars4you

Zoonyboy said:

Am I alone in thinking that they weren't all THAT bad? I still have my Rapier 22 bought secondhand in 1969 for £11.00. It played, didn't choke out and had a decent action for eleven quid. I do admit my first Stratocaster was better, and cost ten times as much, but I remain fond of the Watkins. I learned a lot that you could never do on a Hofner Senator. Having said all that, it remains stored and will most likely never be played again by me, but, you know, I once thought I may upgrade to a 44.

Interesting story and good to here from an 'old stager' who owned one back in the day - I think that many of us, especially beginners, are spoilt by the quality and selection that is available today, for what is often a lower price in relative terms - Yet equally I think there must have been so much enthusiasm from our old guitar hero's as they learnt to master so much on such instruments - You hear so many stories from our guitar hero's who would look in shop windows as kids, often on the way home from school - Wanting a Strat, yet knowing full well that the likes of a Watkins was as close as you'd get - But the pleasure they derived from such instruments is wonderful, as they pretended they were Elvis, Hank, Eddie, Buddy etc - Plus far less selection of guitars in the shops back then - You'd be lucky to find 20 electric guitars/arch top models on display then, amongst sheet music, accordions, various trumpets, clarinets and maybe 2/3 drum kits if you were lucky - The birth of dedicated 'rock shops' had barely begun - Great days and I love this nostalgia - Me and dad would swop countless stories like this

I've told this story before - But I recall an old customer from the past who originally dealt with my granddad, my dad, then me - He owned a Hofner Committee from new from around 1959 - This was his pride and joy - We would play in a good local function band - Often 2/3 times a week for 2/3 hours a night and this went on for nearly 30 years - One day this guitar developed an electrical fault so he asked if I would have a look at it so I was glad to finally have a look at this guitar that he went on about so much - When I got to hold it I was amazed - I could barely play it - Fitted with 12 gauge flatwound and an action from hell - To play it competently would never happen as far as I was concerned - To play simple nursery rhymes on it was a challenge - It made me wonder how he had managed with it for so long - The easy answer is that was all they knew and it became the norm 

I'm not saying that all old guitars are a bitch to play, but many are - But I fully understand the nostalgia and it is good to hear so much about such stories from the past - As I said earlier, I think today we are spoilt and certainly we have never had it so good

Teflon

guitars4you said:

................... I think that many of us, especially beginners, are spoilt by the quality and selection that is available today, for what is often a lower price in relative terms ...........

According to a post way back on page 1, a Rapier 33 would have cost £72 back in 1974.  According to The Bank of Englands inflation calculator, that would equate to £767.38 in 2020, so you're absolutely right, as the new version retails at £429 - not far off half the price   .

guitars4you

Zoonyboy said:

Am I alone in thinking that they weren't all THAT bad? I still have my Rapier 22 bought secondhand in 1969 for £11.00. It played, didn't choke out and had a decent action for eleven quid. I do admit my first Stratocaster was better, and cost ten times as much, but I remain fond of the Watkins. I learned a lot that you could never do on a Hofner Senator. Having said all that, it remains stored and will most likely never be played again by me, but, you know, I once thought I may upgrade to a 44.

Just a thought - You should be the one who should check out the new one for an evaluation - Rather than evaluating from a fading memory, you can offer reality and compare both

I would hope playability has improved - How good a job of capturing the tone will be interesting 

guitars4you

Teflon said:

guitars4you said:

................... I think that many of us, especially beginners, are spoilt by the quality and selection that is available today, for what is often a lower price in relative terms ...........

According to a post way back on page 1, a Rapier 33 would have cost £72 back in 1974.  According to The Bank of Englands inflation calculator, that would equate to £767.38 in 2020, so you're absolutely right, as the new version retails at £429 - not far off half the price   .

That would put the £11 for a used example in 1969 as a good deal - At least on paper - See above post by @Zoonyboy ;
Hard to know now what the feel good factor of the used market place was in 1969 for such a guitar

Zoonyboy

I agree. We are totally spoiled when a £20 Squier Strat from a Cash Converters could see you alright for a decade of work.
My old Rapier 22 looks exactly like Danny Kirwan's in this thread. And to think I bought mine as it looked like Peter Greens Strat off the TV is a strange co-incidence. Mind you, there was little choice.

rze99

Always were ugly 

Shark_Eyes

DrumBob said:

As far as I know, Rapier guitars were never sold in the USA ( I could be wrong), so I have never played one, much less ever seen one. All I know is, reading articles over the years, I have seen many British guitarists mention they started on a Rapier and it was a total piece of junk. The Rapier looks somewhat like the Magnatone Typhoon guitar. 

The guitar nostalgia phenomenon continues unabated. About 8-9 years ago, the Supro Company of Long Island, NY, released a line of amps and guitars based upon the old 50's and 60's designs. The amps did pretty well, but were frightfully overpriced. The guitars were cheap and overpriced, but they looked cool. Basically, they were a flop, and Supro ended up blowing them out to dealers at greatly reduced prices. About two years ago, Supro was bought out by the corporation that produces D'Angelico guitars. The guy running Supro totally screwed his marketing up; he tried to turn Supro into a purveyor of higher end gear, when everyone remembered it as budget student stuff and it backfired in his face. 

I bought a Supro white Holiday guitar direct from the company and it needed over $200 worth of work to get it playable. The Sahara model I got a few months ago from Texas blues guitarist Lance Keltner is much better by far, so maybe I just got a bad one.  

I picked up a Sahara for £350 (I think) and it's been my go-to guitar ever since. I desperately wanted a silverwood which was just lovely but a bit out of my price range at £1099. I tried a fair few of the range as Ivor Mairants were a stockist and didn't think any were duds.

roberty

Is this one? Doesn't have the angled pup

Teflon

That's a Rapier 44  (Oh, and I clicked on "LOL" on you post by mistake when looking for the smileys - sorry!)

Cliff

roberty

Teflon said:

That's a Rapier 44  (Oh, and I clicked on "LOL" on you post by mistake when looking for the smileys - sorry!)

Cliff

Haha thanks and that's okay. I am used to being laughed at here

guitars4you

Just seen a trade note from JHS (Hornby Skewes) regarding the Rapier - They sold their first shipment to dealers straight away (last Autumn) - Only now they've just had a small shipment to satisfy a large back order that is outstanding to  their dealers - Next shipment won't be until late Summer - Not sure if dealers have sold thru' their first deliveries