What's the next 'big thing' in FX/Modellers?

digitalscream

hollywoodrox said:

Ok  here’s something  totally sci-fi 
  

Using Lidar and  inbuilt microphones (or 2 external ping pong ball size pods connected by Bluetooth and facing outwards into the room)   And lasers , The unit will analyse the room  and compare it 
to snapshots of famous artists /equipment playing live  in ideal conditions  and an algorithm will adjust a patch  to match  the room you are playing in  to get the equivalent sound .

this would probably have to be done when the room is full to account for crowd absorption but this may be able to be simulated with another algorithm which would calculate square footage reflections ,absorption etc .

ideally the artist would then be able to turn up even when the venue is empty , play some rhythm 
lead , clean etc  and the unit would calculate the perfect settings for the gig . A few strums , chugs, waddles and you are set up for perfect sound .

I spent some time thinking about this a while back. The problem is...from whose perspective are you trying to get it to sound "right" - the crowd's, or the player's?

Because that's where you're going to have to put the mics. That's the problem, as well as the response of the PA (if you're going direct or through a cab with a mic on it).

What could potentially be done is...differential IRs. Calculate the distance (in algorithmic terms) between the output of your modeller and the sound that's coming out of the speakers, and generate a second IR (or other effect) to layer on top to compensate for the difference.

fretmeister

Game changer or just evolution of what we already have?

Until guitarists stop chasing the "I want my modeller / plugin" to sound exactly like X amp there won't be much that is actually brand new.

95% of the "doesn't sound like a Plexi" crowd have never been in the room with a real cranked plexi.

Needs a different approach by purchasers, away from duplicate tone chasing (as if 2 Marshalls ever sounded the same anyway!) and to a wider ranging "does it sound good" approach, ignoring the bad pun name on the model. That will allow for more experimentation by the makers. Line 6 at least attempt that with their L6 models in the Helix, but they are still software only tweaks of real amps. So they still half-exist.

Alas I think modellers will always be treated that way.

FX though - I'd be amazed if it didn't have "Source Audio" written on it. They seem to take risks that others don't. The Ultrawave pedal is a good example. Some fantastically bonkers but still useable tones available there.

I really need one!

EricTheWeary

hollywoodrox said:

AntonHunter said:

Grumpyrocker said:

I seem to remember a "blank slate" pedal being a thing a few years ago. I can't remember who made it - perhaps Mooer or Joyo. And you could set what the pedal did via your phone. 

Edit: It was the Hotone Xtomp

http://xtomp.com/

Also this a few years ago, more aimed at coders I think.https://www.rebeltech.org/product/owl-pedal/ ;

Didn’t digitech do one like this 

Digitech did the iStomps which were blank individual pedals with a catalogue of delays, overdrives, etc. I bought a couple when they were being sold off but the support was withdrawn so I think they are stuck on  the last thing I downloaded. Probably fine, I must dig them out.
Digitech also did a multi FX you could work from your tablet IIRC. So the Digitech unit was effectively the control system, the software was on your iPad. That seemed to have lasted 5 minutes.

The tc Plethora is probably the closest to this concept now I guess.

Some of these things have been fine but people either see them as overly complex or just as not sexy. If the iStomp had looked like a boutique pedal rather than a plain box maybe it would have caught on more. I was looking at pictures of the Fender Cyber twin, I don't know much about them but they attracted some big name users at the time. But they look like someone has jammed a car radio into the front of an old valve combo. There seems to be a slice of the market that hates that look. How to make modelling sexy is a challenge.       

Roland

digitalscream said:

hollywoodrox said:

Ok  here’s something  totally sci-fi 
  

Using Lidar and  inbuilt microphones ... and you are set up for perfect sound .

I spent some time thinking about this a while back. The problem is...from whose perspective are you trying to get it to sound "right" - the crowd's, or the player's? ...

Where there must be a market is for venues to provide reverberant IRs. These could be used in place of algorithmic reverbs. Imagine treating your home recording as if it were played in a particular concert hall or studio.

fretmeister

I had an iStomp - it was great. 

I've got no idea what I've done with it though.

WiresDreamDisasters

Roland said:

digitalscream said:

hollywoodrox said:

Ok  here’s something  totally sci-fi 
  

Using Lidar and  inbuilt microphones ... and you are set up for perfect sound .

I spent some time thinking about this a while back. The problem is...from whose perspective are you trying to get it to sound "right" - the crowd's, or the player's? ...

Where there must be a market is for venues to provide reverberant IRs. These could be used in place of algorithmic reverbs. Imagine treating your home recording as if it were played in a particular concert hall or studio.

I doubt it would happen.

Many studios and venues are verrrrrryyyyy picky and specific about who they will allow to sample their room sound. That sound is pretty much the only thing making them money these days, so they have to protect it.

We've had the same problem when making drum samples and wanting to provide IR's of the room. They won't sanction it.

There are libraries out there. But they're heavily controlled and the licensing deals must be nuts.

EricTheWeary

fretmeister said:

I had an iStomp - it was great. 

I've got no idea what I've done with it though.

no idea about mine - they are the odd sock of pedals. 

fretmeister

EricTheWeary said:

fretmeister said:

I had an iStomp - it was great. 

I've got no idea what I've done with it though.

no idea about mine - they are the odd sock of pedals. 

I've just re-downloaded the app for iOS - it seems to still be ok.

I'll have to find the pedal.... and the cable and see if it still works.

EricTheWeary

fretmeister said:

EricTheWeary said:

fretmeister said:

I had an iStomp - it was great. 

I've got no idea what I've done with it though.

no idea about mine - they are the odd sock of pedals. 

I've just re-downloaded the app for iOS - it seems to still be ok.

I'll have to find the pedal.... and the cable and see if it still works.

Oh, last time I looked it just had a waiting for updates for IOS message so I should try again. Cheers. 

PolarityMan

WiresDreamDisasters said:

Roland said:

digitalscream said:

hollywoodrox said:

Ok  here’s something  totally sci-fi 
  

Using Lidar and  inbuilt microphones ... and you are set up for perfect sound .

I spent some time thinking about this a while back. The problem is...from whose perspective are you trying to get it to sound "right" - the crowd's, or the player's? ...

Where there must be a market is for venues to provide reverberant IRs. These could be used in place of algorithmic reverbs. Imagine treating your home recording as if it were played in a particular concert hall or studio.

I doubt it would happen.

Many studios and venues are verrrrrryyyyy picky and specific about who they will allow to sample their room sound. That sound is pretty much the only thing making them money these days, so they have to protect it.

We've had the same problem when making drum samples and wanting to provide IR's of the room. They won't sanction it.

There are libraries out there. But they're heavily controlled and the licensing deals must be nuts.

I wonder if you could approximate it by monkeying about with the direct mics versus the room mics and some trig. 

WiresDreamDisasters

PolarityMan said:

WiresDreamDisasters said:

Roland said:

digitalscream said:

hollywoodrox said:

Ok  here’s something  totally sci-fi 
  

Using Lidar and  inbuilt microphones ... and you are set up for perfect sound .

I spent some time thinking about this a while back. The problem is...from whose perspective are you trying to get it to sound "right" - the crowd's, or the player's? ...

Where there must be a market is for venues to provide reverberant IRs. These could be used in place of algorithmic reverbs. Imagine treating your home recording as if it were played in a particular concert hall or studio.

I doubt it would happen.

Many studios and venues are verrrrrryyyyy picky and specific about who they will allow to sample their room sound. That sound is pretty much the only thing making them money these days, so they have to protect it.

We've had the same problem when making drum samples and wanting to provide IR's of the room. They won't sanction it.

There are libraries out there. But they're heavily controlled and the licensing deals must be nuts.

I wonder if you could approximate it by monkeying about with the direct mics versus the room mics and some trig. 

There's probably some super smart DSP whizzzurrrddd working on emulating space from direct mic sources as we speak.

NelsonP

I think it will be the new firmware update from Atomic. Especially if you subscribe to the view that, "good things come to those who wait". ;-)

Bungle1

RocknRollDave said:

maharg101 said:

Not really a FX/modelling thing per se, but given that modelling has increasingly led to the so-called silent stage, it made me think of a silent gig, with the entire audience wearing IEMs. How weird would that be ?  kind of like a silent disco but with a mosh pit !

Already been done. Google "Metallica Antarctica"

The guitarist from Incubus, Mike Einziger, runs a startup called MixHalo which is this sort of thing (not sure if it was used by Metallica). Everyone gets consistent sound from the desk to their phone and can tailor volume to suit etc. I imagine there are pros and cons to it with things like audio quality potentially being down to a punters choice in phone / DAC / earphones etc.

With live music, I'd be a bit worried about sacrificing energy for consistency (any lag in the stream compared with the performance would be a disaster I imagine) but I think it was getting a good response when they started testing a year or 2 back.

hollywoodrox

digitalscream said:

hollywoodrox said:

Ok  here’s something  totally sci-fi 
  

Using Lidar and  inbuilt microphones (or 2 external ping pong ball size pods connected by Bluetooth and facing outwards into the room)   And lasers , The unit will analyse the room  and compare it 
to snapshots of famous artists /equipment playing live  in ideal conditions  and an algorithm will adjust a patch  to match  the room you are playing in  to get the equivalent sound .

this would probably have to be done when the room is full to account for crowd absorption but this may be able to be simulated with another algorithm which would calculate square footage reflections ,absorption etc .

ideally the artist would then be able to turn up even when the venue is empty , play some rhythm 
lead , clean etc  and the unit would calculate the perfect settings for the gig . A few strums , chugs, waddles and you are set up for perfect sound .

I spent some time thinking about this a while back. The problem is...from whose perspective are you trying to get it to sound "right" - the crowd's, or the player's?

Because that's where you're going to have to put the mics. That's the problem, as well as the response of the PA (if you're going direct or through a cab with a mic on it).

What could potentially be done is...differential IRs. Calculate the distance (in algorithmic terms) between the output of your modeller and the sound that's coming out of the speakers, and generate a second IR (or other effect) to layer on top to compensate for the difference.

I think the crowds perspective is most important , but then you need it to sound good for the player too , I suppose he could be fed back the crowds aural perspective in a monitor 

EricTheWeary

I was watching Gregg Koch talk about his new Fishman P90s. These type of pickups are effectively modelling although they still rely on magnets so you can't go too far from the basic recipe. But potentially if Fishman did an editor you could refine any of their pick ups to be the P90/ humbucker/ single coil of your dreams. So, you are recreating different winding patterns ( inasmuch as I understand it) and could potentially do so almost infinitely. Strings still go over magnets ya da ya da ya da so there is no latency or taking the signal into the digital realm; it is like replacing a pick up with another pick up of the same type but at the push of a button.       

rsvmark

Auto tune for guitar- corrects bum notes and sorts out shit timing. In a pedal.

JohnCordy

I was messing around this morning:
Having 2 loopers in a modeller I don't think has been done yet?

dindude

I’ve just watched the Andertons vid of the Boss IR200 vs Strymon Iridium (was genuinely interested as a headphone/recording device with my pedalboard). Sound wise, I’m really not sure we’ve come as far as we say we have, they sound like my Digitech RP-something from 20 years ago. 

duotone

@JohnCordy ;
That’s cool & it reminds me of Minus The Bear style tones.

sjo89

dindude said:

I’ve just watched the Andertons vid of the Boss IR200 vs Strymon Iridium (was genuinely interested as a headphone/recording device with my pedalboard). Sound wise, I’m really not sure we’ve come as far as we say we have, they sound like my Digitech RP-something from 20 years ago. 

Andertons have a knack of making everything sound awful...