NOTE: ADS ON THE FORUM (updated 26/10/21)

digitalscream

fastonebaz said:

EricTheWeary said:

I wonder if by paying to subscribe you change the user- mod relationship? If I was paying to be on here and I had an ad pulled or was put in the cooler for being a dick ( and we're all surprised that hasn't happened yet) would I then argue that I've paid I can do what I like or okay give me my money back then?
Maybe these things are sufficiently rare it wouldn't be a worry but when there's cash involved and all it takes is to be a keyboard warrior I can imagine some of these arguments taking up a lot of mod time.

Certainly if ads for the non logged pay the bills I can't see a problem with that at all; I appreciate that this is not intended to be an online Marxist utopian state. Even basic banner ads when logged in I can learn to ignore quickly enough. 

Good point.

Is that like squid game?  Paying VIPs can do what they like without consequence or admonishment?

Nope. Haven't really thought about it that much, but I'd imagine that it would go something like...

- If they're banned, they get a pro-rata refund
- If they're coolered, they can still access the site, but without ads (I think, haven't tested it lately). If that's the case, there's no refund. If it's not the case (ie they can't see anything at all), then they get a pro-rata refund for that period.

There will certainly be no preferential treatment.

TTony

digitalscream said:

In years past, this wouldn't have been so much of a problem because of @TTony's fundraising efforts. However, he's a hell of a lot better at that stuff than I am (business matters are most definitely not my thing), so...this is my substitute option.

Not sure that I ever quite raised the £100k/yr that the ads option promises ...

digitalscream

TTony said:

digitalscream said:

In years past, this wouldn't have been so much of a problem because of @TTony's fundraising efforts. However, he's a hell of a lot better at that stuff than I am (business matters are most definitely not my thing), so...this is my substitute option.

Not sure that I ever quite raised the £100k/yr that the ads option promises ...

Not convinced Google will, either

Here's the thing - on further analysis of the Analytics and the ad reports, I've come to the conclusion that Google's numbers assume lots and lots of different visitors, like a normal website. Forums confuse it, because we have fewer visitors with much longer engagement creating the page views compared to a normal site. Hence being out by a factor of 10

Roland

digitalscream said:

fastonebaz said:

EricTheWeary said:

I wonder if by paying to subscribe you change the user- mod relationship? If I was paying to be on here and I had an ad pulled or was put in the cooler for being a dick ( and we're all surprised that hasn't happened yet) would I then argue that I've paid I can do what I like or okay give me my money back then?... 

Is that like squid game?  Paying VIPs can do what they like without consequence or admonishment?

Nope. Haven't really thought about it that much, ...

Personally I wouldn’t get into the complication of refunds. If an advert is removed because it breaks rules then the seller can repost correctly. Unless it’s an item we can’t carry, such as a partscaster with Fender logo.

People only get coolered after warnings. If they don’t change their posting behaviour then that’s their risk. Similarly with bans. We would have to make clear in terms and conditions of membership that there are no refunds.

Thinking of T&Cs reminds me that we would have to set up a membership management team, blocking people who don’t pay. That will immediately reduce the number of active members, and discourage new members, which in turn will narrow the field of conversation. Having said that, putting Off Topic and Coronavirus behind a pay wall could have a positive impact.

digitalscream

Roland said:

Thinking of T&Cs reminds me that we would have to set up a membership management team, blocking people who don’t pay. That will immediately reduce the number of active members, and discourage new members, which in turn will narrow the field of conversation. Having said that, putting Off Topic and Coronavirus behind a pay wall could have a positive impact.

No, we wouldn't charge for membership at all, or access - just for removing ads, and the administration of that would be automated; if they don't pay in a given period, the ads return.

There may be additional functionality benefits (eg image uploads, depending on how we go about that), but I really don't want to create a two-tier membership where parts of the forum are locked away behind a paywall. That's never really worked in the history of forums, and only ever serves to fracture the community.

monquixote

digitalscream said:

Roland said:

Thinking of T&Cs reminds me that we would have to set up a membership management team, blocking people who don’t pay. That will immediately reduce the number of active members, and discourage new members, which in turn will narrow the field of conversation. Having said that, putting Off Topic and Coronavirus behind a pay wall could have a positive impact.

No, we wouldn't charge for membership at all, or access - just for removing ads, and the administration of that would be automated; if they don't pay in a given period, the ads return.

There may be additional functionality benefits (eg image uploads, depending on how we go about that), but I really don't want to create a two-tier membership where parts of the forum are locked away behind a paywall. That's never really worked in the history of forums, and only ever serves to fracture the community.

Amen

The reality is that it's more about giving the people who want to give something back the means to contribute.

A special VIP area (for example) would be really dull.

The only feature I ever thought of that might really drive update is the one Preloved do where when you post a classified it goes live only for paid members for the first 24 hours. That's always struck me as a killer app for people who like to snap stuff up.

TTony

monquixote said:

The only feature I ever thought of that might really drive update is the one Preloved do where when you post a classified it goes live only for paid members for the first 24 hours. That's always struck me as a killer app for people who like to snap stuff up.

I've always liked that concept- although nowadays it might end up with the flippers being the main group who pay - because they're the ones using the Classifieds as "a business" opportunity.

Access to image hosting with an easy way to embed is another of those ideas that might be better as a concept than in practice.  It gives us the hassle of hosting, and images aren't compulsory anyway.  Those who want to embed images in the ads generally manage to do so.    Those who don't manage it, probably aren't going to pay to be able to.  Generalisations, obviously.

If we manage to do decent deals with manufacturers/retailers, then  that might be a useful "members only" benefit, but there'd need to be a decent spread and volume of deals to keep the appeal wide.  And not sure many retailers have got the margin left to offer any deals better than they offer online anyway - except perhaps a guaranteed free pack of strings


The annual calendar / t-shirt  and the raffles for donated prizes used to raise a fair bit, although they all took a fair bit of time to arrange and organise.    But those initiatives did at least remind people that we existed thanks to donations, which prompted more donations.  However, that sort of fund-raising isn't going to net Lee £100k/yr,  nor even the more likely £10k/yr.

monquixote

TTony said:

monquixote said:

The only feature I ever thought of that might really drive update is the one Preloved do where when you post a classified it goes live only for paid members for the first 24 hours. That's always struck me as a killer app for people who like to snap stuff up.

I've always liked that concept- although nowadays it might end up with the flippers being the main group who pay - because they're the ones using the Classifieds as "a business" opportunity.

Access to image hosting with an easy way to embed is another of those ideas that might be better as a concept than in practice.  It gives us the hassle of hosting, and images aren't compulsory anyway.  Those who want to embed images in the ads generally manage to do so.    Those who don't manage it, probably aren't going to pay to be able to.  Generalisations, obviously.

If we manage to do decent deals with manufacturers/retailers, then  that might be a useful "members only" benefit, but there'd need to be a decent spread and volume of deals to keep the appeal wide.  And not sure many retailers have got the margin left to offer any deals better than they offer online anyway - except perhaps a guaranteed free pack of strings


The annual calendar / t-shirt  and the raffles for donated prizes used to raise a fair bit, although they all took a fair bit of time to arrange and organise.    But those initiatives did at least remind people that we existed thanks to donations, which prompted more donations.  However, that sort of fund-raising isn't going to net Lee £100k/yr,  nor even the more likely £10k/yr.

I did consider that, but it becomes much harder to hide as a flipper and register multiple times etc when you are signing up to pay membership.

grungebob

As long as posters aren’t censored on their dealings (positive or negative)with any companies advertising I see no reason not to do it. 

Yes it’s nice to browse ad free and no one likes the idea of change but we’d all get used to it real fast. 

John_P

Just signed out to see what the ad's look like and they are probably the least annoying that I've seen on a webpage.    

Lee - if you can make £10K a year from allowing that style of ad then I'm more annoyed you haven't been doing it for ages.  Just do it.  

digitalscream

OK, so here's the current state of play:

1 - The guest ads are working well.

2 - I can't do the second experiment with three shorter ads on the left, because AdSense restricts the ads if they're not large enough in either dimension.

3 - The overwhelming opinion here seems to be that global ads are OK.

As such, I think the logical next step would be to go with the full ads-for-everyone experiment for a couple of weeks, as mentioned before, just to see if it has an effect or there's a full-on mutiny.

maharg101

I've no problem at all with ads on the site. Go for it !

digitalscream

Update: ads added for all. This is a temporary experiment. After a week, I'll run a poll and see whether the general feeling is that it's worth the pain for the proposed benefits, and make a decision on whether they stay or not.

exocet

I clicked through to "Lily's Kitchen", then I discovered it was pet food. I have no issues with the ads.

fastonebaz

I've been offered a tummy tuck in Istanbul.    

TTony

iPad shields are up.


Strangely, I’ve not needed / used an adblocker on the iPad before.  Presume you still get paid?

digitalscream

TTony said:

iPad shields are up.


Strangely, I’ve not needed / used an adblocker on the iPad before.  Presume you still get paid?

Nope, only if the ads actually show.

It's not a problem, though...I'm not going to sit here and whine about people using ad blockers

digitalscream

fastonebaz said:

I've been offered a tummy tuck in Istanbul.    

It apparently thinks I need an oil temperature sensor for my MG.

It's not beyond the bounds of possibility. I'll check it in the morning...

EricTheWeary

I was okay with it until the ads for hair loss products started. If it’s Slimming World next I may be out…

mrkb

Wow, didnt realise there were so many horny housewifes nearby!