Duncan vs Dimarzio characteristics

Dave_Mc

tekbow said:

There's A question, Duncan Distortion vs the Super Distortion, both companies earliest models.

I guess this would be the epitome of the general characteristics described earlier.

It's ages since I've tried either of them, I can't remember much about them!

Philly_Q said:

I wonder how the JB and '59 became industry standards in the first place?  Did manufacturers approach Duncan, because their pickups were well-regarded, or did Duncan actually have a marketing strategy of going straight to the manufacturers?  I don't know the answer.

Thinking back to the very early '80s, DiMarzios were common on budget Japanese guitars and on a couple of premium brands like BC Rich and Hamer.  But then Seymour Duncan seemed to take over, apart from DiMarzio's association with Ibanez.

It's quite a bit before my time, so maybe I'm missing something, but I do find it kind of weird that Dimarzio (according to Dimarzio, to be fair!) seemed to single-handedly create the replacement pickup industry, and yet currently (and for quite some time... since I started playing in around 2000 anyway) seems to be the less common of the "big two" passive manufacturers. Certainly when you consider that for most other electric guitar stuff, the "first" was usually the classic that everyone else tried to emulate.

ThePrettyDamned

I'm looking forward to trying a tone zone and air norton in my new project. I've always used Duncan in the past (love love loved the custom, custom custom and custom 5, and the JB/JN is great too).

guitars4you

Dave_Mc said:

Philly_Q said:

I wonder how the JB and '59 became industry standards in the first place?  Did manufacturers approach Duncan, because their pickups were well-regarded, or did Duncan actually have a marketing strategy of going straight to the manufacturers?  I don't know the answer.

Thinking back to the very early '80s, DiMarzios were common on budget Japanese guitars and on a couple of premium brands like BC Rich and Hamer.  But then Seymour Duncan seemed to take over, apart from DiMarzio's association with Ibanez.

It's quite a bit before my time, so maybe I'm missing something, but I do find it kind of weird that Dimarzio (according to Dimarzio, to be fair!) seemed to single-handedly create the replacement pickup industry, 

I started full time in 78 but was working Sat + School holidays from 74 - So yes I recall the early days when DiMarzio, as you say almost single handedly, created this new buzz of replacement pick-ups - The PAF and Super Distortion, quickly followed by the Dual Sound were hot products off the day - We always had them on order and often struggled to replace them in stock quick enough - Then for Strat players the SD1 - God knows how many ended up in old Strats - That is another story for another day, as they all appear to have become original again 

To be fair to the Dimarzio trend in the 70's - I recall most pick-ups going in Jap copies more than Gibson Guitars - And certainly if they went in Gibson Guitars it was only models of the day - You do see some used 70's LP's with the mini toggle switch Dual Sound conversion but not that many

I think it was@ICBM that told me/us all on another FB thread, that DiMarzio own the IPR to PAF - It was never a licenced name that Gibson registered - Something I did not know at the time

Regarding Seymour Duncan and indeed DiMarzio - It was a dual policy - Sell direct to the builders and sell the pick-ups to the dealers/workshops for after sale/conversions

I don't know the sales figures, indeed if there are any, but would imagine that DiMarzio and Seymour Duncan are by a long way the 2 largest companies in that sector - I know we now have many other smaller boutique companies in the market place - I think there is a similarity with Boss pedals and S Duncan + DiMarzio - All 3 have been sold to many great players across the world, both in the past and today - But maybe today some buyers/players now perceive them to be a 'Ford Mondeo' so somewhat bland/par for the course, as they gravitate towards boutique 

PhilKing

Dave_Mc said:

It's quite a bit before my time, so maybe I'm missing something, but I do find it kind of weird that Dimarzio (according to Dimarzio, to be fair!) seemed to single-handedly create the replacement pickup industry, and yet currently (and for quite some time... since I started playing in around 2000 anyway) seems to be the less common of the "big two" passive manufacturers. Certainly when you consider that for most other electric guitar stuff, the "first" was usually the classic that everyone else tried to emulate.

I was working in music retail back in the 70's and the company that I remember having the first after market pickups was Mighty Mite, though you don't really hear about their stuff that much.  They also had a lot of the replacement parts.  I think DiMarzio started to push the pickups and were a lot larger than MM.  Also a brand that always used to have DiMarzio in the early days was Hamer, and my original 70's BC Rich had DiMArzios too.  Another interesting difference, which probably isn't too meaningful outside the States, is that DiMarzio was New York based where Seymour Duncan is California based.  In the early days of SD, they seemed to have a few more key players, even if the JB isn't really a 'Jeff Beck' pickup, but is Jazz/Blues!

guitars4you

PhilKing said:

Dave_Mc said:

It's quite a bit before my time, so maybe I'm missing something, but I do find it kind of weird that Dimarzio (according to Dimarzio, to be fair!) seemed to single-handedly create the replacement pickup industry, and yet currently (and for quite some time... since I started playing in around 2000 anyway) seems to be the less common of the "big two" passive manufacturers. Certainly when you consider that for most other electric guitar stuff, the "first" was usually the classic that everyone else tried to emulate.

I was working in music retail back in the 70's and the company that I remember having the first after market pickups was Mighty Mite, though you don't really hear about their stuff that much.  They also had a lot of the replacement parts.  I think DiMarzio started to push the pickups and were a lot larger than MM.  Also a brand that always used to have DiMarzio in the early days was Hamer, and my original 70's BC Rich had DiMArzios too.  Another interesting difference, which probably isn't too meaningful outside the States, is that DiMarzio was New York based where Seymour Duncan is California based.  In the early days of SD, they seemed to have a few more key players, even if the JB isn't really a 'Jeff Beck' pickup, but is Jazz/Blues!

I recall Mighty Mite as well, but as you say DiMarzio had far more of the hype/demand/market share - But MM offered loads of the brass hardware, which was another hot rod/custom option that many players brought into, especially for Strats and Teles - So much so that Fender offered The Strat, a few years later, which had all the brass hardware factory fitted - Of course Schecter were also big players in such hardware, as well as offering the necks/bodies 

PhilKing

I think that the first Schecter and Mighty Mite ads were in the rare copies of Guitar Player that I got hold of.  We really didn't have a guitar magazine like that back then.  

Funkfingers

octatonic said:

Philly_Q said:

I wonder how the JB and '59 became industry standards in the first place?

They started as aftermarket.
They were just the best.

When it first appeared, the Duncan SH-1 '59 was arguably closer to an original Fifties Gibson pickup than most Gibson humbuckers of the mid-Seventies. (Tarbacks, Super Humbuckers et cetera.)

The JB began as something that Seymour wound for one of Mr. Beck's old Gibsons after an unscrupulous American guitar tech stole its original pickups. (The sanded back to Natural one rather than the oxblood one.)

Dave_Mc

That's some very interesting info there @guitars4you and @PhilKing , thanks for sharing

WezV

I used dimarzios on a lot of my early guitar builds because the exchange rate was awesome and I could import them for peanuts.  It was about half the UK price even with postage and the occasional customs bill.

Shortly after they stopped their dealers from shipping across territories, I don't think I had another new set after that.

Philly_Q

WezV said:

I used dimarzios on a lot of my early guitar builds because the exchange rate was awesome and I could import them for peanuts.  It was about half the UK price even with postage and the occasional customs bill.

Shortly after they stopped their dealers from shipping across territories, I don't think I had another new set after that.

There are still a couple of eBay sellers shipping internationally, perhaps they're breaking the rules there... and the price, even with shipping, VAT and import duty, is still pretty comparable with UK.

hubobulous

Philly_Q said:

Reverend said:

Philly_Q said:

If nothing else follows from this thread, I think I have convinced myself to buy a DiMarzio Norton.

my Ibanez destroyer 2 came with one and it sounds great. 

@Reverend ; Excellent.  Not too bassy in a set-neck?  That was my fear, that it would be too similar to the Tone Zone, which I tried in an SG and a Gordon smith GS2 - and really didn't like it.

I have a Norton at the bridge in my Feline Custom Lion, (and an Air Norton at the neck). I love that combination. The Air Norton is such a good neck pickup and the Norton at the bridge is great too.

WezV

Philly_Q said:

WezV said:

I used dimarzios on a lot of my early guitar builds because the exchange rate was awesome and I could import them for peanuts.  It was about half the UK price even with postage and the occasional customs bill.

Shortly after they stopped their dealers from shipping across territories, I don't think I had another new set after that.

There are still a couple of eBay sellers shipping internationally, perhaps they're breaking the rules there... and the price, even with shipping, VAT and import duty, is still pretty comparable with UK.

yeah, it was like 15-20 years ago.  Things may have changed a little,  the exchange rate certainly has.  And its less likely they slip through customs now.

Philly_Q

WezV said:

Philly_Q said:

WezV said:

I used dimarzios on a lot of my early guitar builds because the exchange rate was awesome and I could import them for peanuts.  It was about half the UK price even with postage and the occasional customs bill.

Shortly after they stopped their dealers from shipping across territories, I don't think I had another new set after that.

There are still a couple of eBay sellers shipping internationally, perhaps they're breaking the rules there... and the price, even with shipping, VAT and import duty, is still pretty comparable with UK.

yeah, it was like 15-20 years ago.  Things may have changed a little,  the exchange rate certainly has.  And its less likely they slip through customs now.

In fact I've just taken the plunge and bought a DiMarzio from eBay - with all the import charges paid up front, so I won't be avoiding those...

hubobulous said:

Philly_Q said:

Reverend said:

Philly_Q said:

If nothing else follows from this thread, I think I have convinced myself to buy a DiMarzio Norton.

my Ibanez destroyer 2 came with one and it sounds great. 

@Reverend ; Excellent.  Not too bassy in a set-neck?  That was my fear, that it would be too similar to the Tone Zone, which I tried in an SG and a Gordon smith GS2 - and really didn't like it.

I have a Norton at the bridge in my Feline Custom Lion, (and an Air Norton at the neck). I love that combination. The Air Norton is such a good neck pickup and the Norton at the bridge is great too.

I'm set on getting a Norton.  But hardly anyone seems to have them in stock and definitely not in the right colour.  Loads of Air Nortons, but very few (earth?) Nortons.

normula1

TTBZ said:

Yamaha77 said:

Duncan's have the same wind in custom, cc and c5 and the only difference is magnet swap. If a pickup doesn't suit a guitar the first thing I try is a magnet swap.

Yeah I've had a Custom 5 for ages, it started life as a Custom Custom but I preferred the C5 with my old guitar. In the strat it's in now it's a bit too scooped, I may try the A2 again for more mids but I remember I didn't like the looser low end. Would ceramic (Custom) be less scooped and brighter than the C5? Or I may put the A8 magnet back in it, I had it as the "unofficial" Custom 8 for a while in my SG which was good.

Try an A4... I bought a bunch of magnets recently and an A4 in my CC brought it to life. Less shouty than the 5 and richer than the 2. This is in the bridge of a PRS CU22

 

normula1

Funkfingers said:

Depends which way you come at it.

Judging by Internet auction listing sites, a premium is being charged for Duncan JB, '59 and Distortion humbuckers wound by Maricela Juarez. 

Anyone buying one, expecting it to be special, is likely to convince themselves that it is, somehow, above average.

What I tend to find is that, when I hear a particularly nice old JB or Distortion, if I inspect the model ID label on its baseplate, it ends with a J.

For several years, MJ has been mostly working in the SD Custom Shop, winding bespoke pickups. I do not know how much time she now spends on the production line. I do know that the bog standard TB-6 Distortion Trembucker in my PRS SE Custom sounds excellent.

A good few years ago I happened by chance to get a used 59 neck and it's probably my best sounding neck pickup. It also happens to have the J marking. No idea whether it's better than stock or just a great example.