Alec Baldwin accidentally shoots woman dead on set

EricTheWeary

It is quite shocking. 

From what I know of it the health and safety aspect around filming these days is pretty tight so it's a very unlikely occurrence. 

Philly_Q

Yeah, I'm not claiming to have the answers, just thought it was interesting what the armourer guy said.  Clearly something has gone horribly wrong.

telehack

Offset said:

Philly_Q said:

There was a film industry "armourer" on the radio this morning who said it should be absolutely impossible for this to happen with "movie blanks", which are apparently different from the type of blanks you or I might buy (if we had any reason to buy blanks).  He said the worst that might happen, with old Western-style rifles or pistols, would be a powder burn.  All very strange, and tragic.

It ain't necessarily so.  From the BBC's website re. Brandon Lee's death in similar circumstances:

"It was later determined that the gun used had earlier fired a round that caused a cartridge to become lodged in the barrel. When blank rounds were later fired, the cartridge was dislodged and released."

That's poor wording from the BBC. A cartridge did not become lodged in the barrel, a bullet did. The subsequent blank round propelled the bullet out of the barrel. Also, the person killed by Baldwin was the cinematographer, not an actor. A tragedy nonetheless.

tekbow

telehack said:

Offset said:

Philly_Q said:

There was a film industry "armourer" on the radio this morning who said it should be absolutely impossible for this to happen with "movie blanks", which are apparently different from the type of blanks you or I might buy (if we had any reason to buy blanks).  He said the worst that might happen, with old Western-style rifles or pistols, would be a powder burn.  All very strange, and tragic.

It ain't necessarily so.  From the BBC's website re. Brandon Lee's death in similar circumstances:

"It was later determined that the gun used had earlier fired a round that caused a cartridge to become lodged in the barrel. When blank rounds were later fired, the cartridge was dislodged and released."

That's poor wording from the BBC. A cartridge did not become lodged in the barrel, a bullet did. The subsequent blank round propelled the bullet out of the barrel. Also, the person killed was the cinematographer, not an actor. A tragedy nonetheless.

I think you've misread this.

Brandon Lee, the son of Bruce, was famously killed in a separate blank firing accident in the 90s.

He was most definitely an actor, and the above described events were what the investigation determined to be the cause.

Jalapeno

fretmeister said:

sinbaadi said:

Alec Baldwin might be a firearms expert, I don't know, he is an American so he could well be.  Blanks or not that weapon should be treated like a live weapon with real ammunition, and the fact that this happened is evidence enough that there was gross negligence.  
Alec might only be partly culpable, there would be a firearms expert on site, probably a team of, and they have failed to control the use of this weapon.

Such a stupid accident, no matter what the particulars are.

He's likely to be not culpable at all.

There will be a full investigation and it is possible that the firearms experts and the production company are liable, but AB will have relied on those experts and followed instructions as to how to use the weapon, where to point it for the purpose of getting the scene filmed etc etc.

Speculation about facts and the reactions of authorities in an entirely different jurisdiction don't help.

He's an Exec Producer on the film - ultimately he's liable that way whatever the circumstances.

telehack

I was referring to the title of this thread, the person killed by Baldwin was I think the director of photography. I've editing my post to make that clearer.

fretmeister

Jalapeno said:

fretmeister said:

sinbaadi said:

Alec Baldwin might be a firearms expert, I don't know, he is an American so he could well be.  Blanks or not that weapon should be treated like a live weapon with real ammunition, and the fact that this happened is evidence enough that there was gross negligence.  
Alec might only be partly culpable, there would be a firearms expert on site, probably a team of, and they have failed to control the use of this weapon.

Such a stupid accident, no matter what the particulars are.

He's likely to be not culpable at all.

There will be a full investigation and it is possible that the firearms experts and the production company are liable, but AB will have relied on those experts and followed instructions as to how to use the weapon, where to point it for the purpose of getting the scene filmed etc etc.

Speculation about facts and the reactions of authorities in an entirely different jurisdiction don't help.

He's an Exec Producer on the film - ultimately he's liable that way whatever the circumstances.

Didn't realise that.

Good point. 

EricTheWeary

@jalapeno I don't know whether it is worth changing the discussion title slightly? We seem to be  having a bit of confusion as it wasn't an actor that was shot. 

JezWynd

VimFuego said:

Keiko said:

Here's a crazy idea. Lets stop glamorising guns and killing people altogether.

is that what the film was doing?

The Hollywood machine specialises in turning out movies where, by the final reel, the hero is usually dressed in bloodstained vest and clutching a handgun. They've been glamourising violence for nearly 100 years.

VimFuego

JezWynd said:

VimFuego said:

Keiko said:

Here's a crazy idea. Lets stop glamorising guns and killing people altogether.

is that what the film was doing?

The Hollywood machine specialises in turning out movies where, by the final reel, the hero is usually dressed in bloodstained vest and clutching a handgun. They've been glamourising violence for nearly 100 years.

and again, is that what this film is doing?

Jalapeno

EricTheWeary said:

@jalapeno I don't know whether it is worth changing the discussion title slightly? We seem to be  having a bit of confusion as it wasn't an actor that was shot. 

Done

jonnyburgo

Regulations would be extremely tight on a set, they would have had a firearms person taking care of the weapons which makes it all the more tragic really. Somebody will be in deep shit.

tanihhiavlt

jonnyburgo said:

Regulations would be extremely tight on a set, they would have had a firearms person taking care of the weapons which makes it all the more tragic really. Somebody will be in deep shit.

her husband and kids for starters  

the rest, will mostly be about money.

rlw

To paraphrase the great man...

To shoot one may be regarded as a misfortune, to shoot two looks like carelessness!

Mattharrier

Movies are increasingly using prop weapons, which simulate the action of the weapon using electronics, rather than the actual recoil or blowback operation of a real firearm, and then using CGI to add in smoke and flame to make it look real. This would be, I imagine, somewhat prohibitively expensive for a smaller budget independent film, and so real weapons that have been modified to fire blanks would be (particularly in the US) much, much cheaper.

Any blank round will be, basically, a regular cartridge without a bullet - if there is literally nothing in the cartridge, there is nothing to create the pressure necessary to cycle the action of most weapons, and therefore anything lodged in the barrel could be forced out by the propellant gasses expanding (which is what happens with the bullet in an actual live-firing weapon).

I imagine that Baldwin was given a weapon by the armorer, or one of their assistants, as had happened multiple times (the weapons that do the firing aren't the same ones that would be carried around on set; those would be dummy weapons and the "live" weapons would be handed out as required a

Mellish

Surely, the blame has to lie with the firearms expert? Everyone else would trust whoever that was had done their job

VimFuego

surely we should wait on making any judgements until the investigation is complete? I don't know about anyone else here, but I wasn't there, I didn't witness the event, nor have I spoken to anyone involved. Kinda tricky to draw any conclusions when you haven't access to all the facts. It may well be that someone is to blame.

Teetonetal

Oh my, what a terribly sad and tragic event for all concerned.

Philly_Q

Article about the cinematographer, Halyna Hutchins, here.  It seems her film career was just taking off.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-59007724

Dominic

very sad .No amount of whose fault or who was responsible will bring the lady back for her husband and children.
It's strange that a blank kills somebody busy doing their relatively risk free job and yet you get the odd bad-arse gangster rapper who latterly becomes famous but has been shot with real bullets and real malice 5 times and is still out there walking around and enjoying life.