Alec Baldwin accidentally shoots woman dead on set

WiresDreamDisasters

Handsome_Chris said:

If professionals get it wrong, why hold actors to a higher standard?

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Hootsmon

Hootsmon said:

What dosen't add up for me is he must have been pointing the gun at the woman and you don't even do that with a gun loaded wih blanks. Pointing it and puling the trigger is to be expected with another actor for a particular scene involving a gun but pointing and firing on a cinematographer? yes, it's true we don't know, but if he has been messin' around he's fucked

https://edition.cnn.com/2021/10/25/entertainment/alec-baldwin-shooting-rust-shooting-monday/index.html

drofluf

Handsome_Chris said:

FastEddie said:

Kilgore said:

drofluf said:

Kilgore said:

<snip>

It can't be an actors responsibility to "know what state it is in". 

I disagree; it should be the responsibility of the person holding the gun to know the state that it’s in. As @FastEddie said it only takes an hour to learn. In the same way that actors learn to fall if they want to do their own stunts they should be qualified in gun handling if they want to play a part that requires them to handle a gun. 

 If an actor is in a scene which requires them to wear some kind of safety equipment, harness for example. Is it their ultimate responsibility to check the equipment?

If an actor is in scene requiring they drive a vehicle are they responsible for checking the vehicle is safe?

The answer to both is no. An actors job is to pretend they're doing stuff that they're not actually doing.

It is the responsibility of other professionals on set to facilitate this in a safe manner. 

I could not disagree more. 
Learning how to check a weapon is so simple, it's as easy as putting on a seatbelt. 

It takes a few seconds to hand over a weapon correctly. That's it. There is nothing complicated I promise you. I can introduce you to soldiers who could not lay an E chord but can check a weapon. 

@FastEddie , you make an interesting argument for education in the field of weapon handling; however, in 2017 seven people were injured through accidental firing of weapons.  A further one was fatally injured by an accidental discharge of a weapon.  These incidents were not down to some Hollywood mishaps, where an amatuer mis-handled a loaded weapon, they were down to weapons being handled by members of H.M Armed Forces (gov.uk, 2018).

If professionals get it wrong, why hold actors to a higher standard?

Firstly nobody is arguing that actors have to be held to a higher standard, just the same standard. Secondly there are probably more military personnel handling weapons, it is their day job after all, and they do it day in day out whereas a fewer number of actors who don’t handle a gun every day let alone every scene so statistically you’d expect more accidents. 

m_c

Hootsmon said:

Hootsmon said:

What dosen't add up for me is he must have been pointing the gun at the woman and you don't even do that with a gun loaded wih blanks. Pointing it and puling the trigger is to be expected with another actor for a particular scene involving a gun but pointing and firing on a cinematographer? yes, it's true we don't know, but if he has been messin' around he's fucked

https://edition.cnn.com/2021/10/25/entertainment/alec-baldwin-shooting-rust-shooting-monday/index.html

I don't think rehearsing a scene, would be classed as "messin' around".

FastEddie

Handsome_Chris said:

FastEddie said:

Kilgore said:

drofluf said:

Kilgore said:

<snip>

It can't be an actors responsibility to "know what state it is in". 

I disagree; it should be the responsibility of the person holding the gun to know the state that it’s in. As @FastEddie said it only takes an hour to learn. In the same way that actors learn to fall if they want to do their own stunts they should be qualified in gun handling if they want to play a part that requires them to handle a gun. 

 If an actor is in a scene which requires them to wear some kind of safety equipment, harness for example. Is it their ultimate responsibility to check the equipment?

If an actor is in scene requiring they drive a vehicle are they responsible for checking the vehicle is safe?

The answer to both is no. An actors job is to pretend they're doing stuff that they're not actually doing.

It is the responsibility of other professionals on set to facilitate this in a safe manner. 

I could not disagree more. 
Learning how to check a weapon is so simple, it's as easy as putting on a seatbelt. 

It takes a few seconds to hand over a weapon correctly. That's it. There is nothing complicated I promise you. I can introduce you to soldiers who could not lay an E chord but can check a weapon. 

@FastEddie , you make an interesting argument for education in the field of weapon handling; however, in 2017 seven people were injured through accidental firing of weapons.  A further one was fatally injured by an accidental discharge of a weapon.  These incidents were not down to some Hollywood mishaps, where an amatuer mis-handled a loaded weapon, they were down to weapons being handled by members of H.M Armed Forces (gov.uk, 2018).

If professionals get it wrong, why hold actors to a higher stanHandsome_Chris said:

FastEddie said:

Kilgore said:

drofluf said:

Kilgore said:

<snip>

It can't be an actors responsibility to "know what state it is in". 

I disagree; it should be the responsibility of the person holding the gun to know the state that it’s in. As @FastEddie said it only takes an hour to learn. In the same way that actors learn to fall if they want to do their own stunts they should be qualified in gun handling if they want to play a part that requires them to handle a gun. 

 If an actor is in a scene which requires them to wear some kind of safety equipment, harness for example. Is it their ultimate responsibility to check the equipment?

If an actor is in scene requiring they drive a vehicle are they responsible for checking the vehicle is safe?

The answer to both is no. An actors job is to pretend they're doing stuff that they're not actually doing.

It is the responsibility of other professionals on set to facilitate this in a safe manner. 

I could not disagree more. 
Learning how to check a weapon is so simple, it's as easy as putting on a seatbelt. 

It takes a few seconds to hand over a weapon correctly. That's it. There is nothing complicated I promise you. I can introduce you to soldiers who could not lay an E chord but can check a weapon. 

@FastEddie , you make an interesting argument for education in the field of weapon handling; however, in 2017 seven people were injured through accidental firing of weapons.  A further one was fatally injured by an accidental discharge of a weapon.  These incidents were not down to some Hollywood mishaps, where an amatuer mis-handled a loaded weapon, they were down to weapons being handled by members of H.M Armed Forces (gov.uk, 2018).

If professionals get it wrong, why hold actors to a higher standard?

I'm thinking you're joking right?
Yes?
Should I bite by telling you the multiple ways in which soldiers use live rounds?

I'd wager that all of the accidents are by the RAF and Royal Navy. They don't see rifles and pistols very often and get a can get bit flustered. 

I'll leave that there.   ;-)

Hootsmon

m_c said:

Hootsmon said:

Hootsmon said:

What dosen't add up for me is he must have been pointing the gun at the woman and you don't even do that with a gun loaded wih blanks. Pointing it and puling the trigger is to be expected with another actor for a particular scene involving a gun but pointing and firing on a cinematographer? yes, it's true we don't know, but if he has been messin' around he's fucked

https://edition.cnn.com/2021/10/25/entertainment/alec-baldwin-shooting-rust-shooting-monday/index.html

I don't think rehearsing a scene, would be classed as "messin' around".

Practising your fast draw with folk in your line of fire is not messing around? yeah right

Kilgore

drofluf said:

Handsome_Chris said:

 

@FastEddie , you make an interesting argument for education in the field of weapon handling; however, in 2017 seven people were injured through accidental firing of weapons.  A further one was fatally injured by an accidental discharge of a weapon.  These incidents were not down to some Hollywood mishaps, where an amatuer mis-handled a loaded weapon, they were down to weapons being handled by members of H.M Armed Forces (gov.uk, 2018).

If professionals get it wrong, why hold actors to a higher standard?

Firstly nobody is arguing that actors have to be held to a higher standard, just the same standard. Secondly there are probably more military personnel handling weapons, it is their day job after all, and they do it day in day out whereas a fewer number of actors who don’t handle a gun every day let alone every scene so statistically you’d expect more accidents. 

So you're saying that actors should be held to the same standard as the military?

 But in your own words "it is their day job after all, and they do it day in day out"

Exactly, actors don't do it every day which is why it's not their responsibility. 

VimFuego

Hootsmon said:

m_c said:

Hootsmon said:

Hootsmon said:

What dosen't add up for me is he must have been pointing the gun at the woman and you don't even do that with a gun loaded wih blanks. Pointing it and puling the trigger is to be expected with another actor for a particular scene involving a gun but pointing and firing on a cinematographer? yes, it's true we don't know, but if he has been messin' around he's fucked

https://edition.cnn.com/2021/10/25/entertainment/alec-baldwin-shooting-rust-shooting-monday/index.html

I don't think rehearsing a scene, would be classed as "messin' around".

Practising your fast draw with folk in your line of fire is not messing around? yeah right

from what I understand, he was pointing the gun at the camera, hence the DP getting shot, as she was behind the camera.

Mellish

What's with this back and forth? 7 pages of it. A woman has died, there's a man injured. An investigation will be held and, hopefully, one or more blamed. I'm as sentimental as the next man, I realise you have points to make and this is a forum, but in a situation like this where everyone seems to want to be right, maybe it's best to just let it go. Just my opinion  

drofluf

Kilgore said:

drofluf said:

Handsome_Chris said:

 

@FastEddie , you make an interesting argument for education in the field of weapon handling; however, in 2017 seven people were injured through accidental firing of weapons.  A further one was fatally injured by an accidental discharge of a weapon.  These incidents were not down to some Hollywood mishaps, where an amatuer mis-handled a loaded weapon, they were down to weapons being handled by members of H.M Armed Forces (gov.uk, 2018).

If professionals get it wrong, why hold actors to a higher standard?

Firstly nobody is arguing that actors have to be held to a higher standard, just the same standard. Secondly there are probably more military personnel handling weapons, it is their day job after all, and they do it day in day out whereas a fewer number of actors who don’t handle a gun every day let alone every scene so statistically you’d expect more accidents. 

So you're saying that actors should be held to the same standard as the military?

 But in your own words "it is their day job after all, and they do it day in day out"

Exactly, actors don't do it every day which is why it's not their responsibility. 

With respect to basic weapons safety yes they should be held to the same standard, but I got burnt on that yesterday as well so it’s not a popular view round here…

My point on it being their day job was that more military  are handling weapons more frequently so it might be reasonable to expect more accidents. 

drofluf

FastEddie said:

Handsome_Chris said:

FastEddie said:

Kilgore said:

drofluf said:

Kilgore said:

<snip>

It can't be an actors responsibility to "know what state it is in". 

I disagree; it should be the responsibility of the person holding the gun to know the state that it’s in. As @FastEddie said it only takes an hour to learn. In the same way that actors learn to fall if they want to do their own stunts they should be qualified in gun handling if they want to play a part that requires them to handle a gun. 

 If an actor is in a scene which requires them to wear some kind of safety equipment, harness for example. Is it their ultimate responsibility to check the equipment?

If an actor is in scene requiring they drive a vehicle are they responsible for checking the vehicle is safe?

The answer to both is no. An actors job is to pretend they're doing stuff that they're not actually doing.

It is the responsibility of other professionals on set to facilitate this in a safe manner. 

I could not disagree more. 
Learning how to check a weapon is so simple, it's as easy as putting on a seatbelt. 

It takes a few seconds to hand over a weapon correctly. That's it. There is nothing complicated I promise you. I can introduce you to soldiers who could not lay an E chord but can check a weapon. 

@FastEddie , you make an interesting argument for education in the field of weapon handling; however, in 2017 seven people were injured through accidental firing of weapons.  A further one was fatally injured by an accidental discharge of a weapon.  These incidents were not down to some Hollywood mishaps, where an amatuer mis-handled a loaded weapon, they were down to weapons being handled by members of H.M Armed Forces (gov.uk, 2018).

If professionals get it wrong, why hold actors to a higher stanHandsome_Chris said:

FastEddie said:

Kilgore said:

drofluf said:

Kilgore said:

<snip>

It can't be an actors responsibility to "know what state it is in". 

I disagree; it should be the responsibility of the person holding the gun to know the state that it’s in. As @FastEddie said it only takes an hour to learn. In the same way that actors learn to fall if they want to do their own stunts they should be qualified in gun handling if they want to play a part that requires them to handle a gun. 

 If an actor is in a scene which requires them to wear some kind of safety equipment, harness for example. Is it their ultimate responsibility to check the equipment?

If an actor is in scene requiring they drive a vehicle are they responsible for checking the vehicle is safe?

The answer to both is no. An actors job is to pretend they're doing stuff that they're not actually doing.

It is the responsibility of other professionals on set to facilitate this in a safe manner. 

I could not disagree more. 
Learning how to check a weapon is so simple, it's as easy as putting on a seatbelt. 

It takes a few seconds to hand over a weapon correctly. That's it. There is nothing complicated I promise you. I can introduce you to soldiers who could not lay an E chord but can check a weapon. 

@FastEddie , you make an interesting argument for education in the field of weapon handling; however, in 2017 seven people were injured through accidental firing of weapons.  A further one was fatally injured by an accidental discharge of a weapon.  These incidents were not down to some Hollywood mishaps, where an amatuer mis-handled a loaded weapon, they were down to weapons being handled by members of H.M Armed Forces (gov.uk, 2018).

If professionals get it wrong, why hold actors to a higher standard?

I'm thinking you're joking right?
Yes?
Should I bite by telling you the multiple ways in which soldiers use live rounds?

I'd wager that all of the accidents are by the RAF and Royal Navy. They don't see rifles and pistols very often and get a can get bit flustered. 

I'll leave that there.   ;-)

@FastEddie go easy on us crabs please mate those bangs and flashes up close can be really scary

monquixote

Hootsmon said:

m_c said:

Hootsmon said:

Hootsmon said:

What dosen't add up for me is he must have been pointing the gun at the woman and you don't even do that with a gun loaded wih blanks. Pointing it and puling the trigger is to be expected with another actor for a particular scene involving a gun but pointing and firing on a cinematographer? yes, it's true we don't know, but if he has been messin' around he's fucked

https://edition.cnn.com/2021/10/25/entertainment/alec-baldwin-shooting-rust-shooting-monday/index.html

I don't think rehearsing a scene, would be classed as "messin' around".

Practising your fast draw with folk in your line of fire is not messing around? yeah right

The reason they were in his line of fire was because they were filming him rehearsing using a gun which he and they had just been told was not loaded.

BillDL

Aaaaaarrrrgggghhhh !!

Handsome_Chris

@monquixote , you've been trolled.

monquixote

Fantastic.

I'm glad everyone is finding this amusing...

RandallFlagg

Charlton Heston:

“Here's my credo. There are no good guns, There are no bad guns. A gun in the hands of a bad man is a bad thing. Any gun in the hands of a good man is no threat to anyone, except bad people.”

tone1

Mellish said:

What's with this back and forth? 7 pages of it. A woman has died, there's a man injured. An investigation will be held and, hopefully, one or more blamed. I'm as sentimental as the next man, I realise you have points to make and this is a forum, but in a situation like this where everyone seems to want to be right, maybe it's best to just let it go. Just my opinion  

I’m guessing you’re new around here…..

Mellish

@tone1 yes, joined late August this year. Because of that I maybe have no right to speak out. It's just that I'm sure you know so much about guitars and I'd love to read it. That would be wonderful  

m_c

Hootsmon said:

m_c said:

Hootsmon said:

Hootsmon said:

What dosen't add up for me is he must have been pointing the gun at the woman and you don't even do that with a gun loaded wih blanks. Pointing it and puling the trigger is to be expected with another actor for a particular scene involving a gun but pointing and firing on a cinematographer? yes, it's true we don't know, but if he has been messin' around he's fucked

https://edition.cnn.com/2021/10/25/entertainment/alec-baldwin-shooting-rust-shooting-monday/index.html

I don't think rehearsing a scene, would be classed as "messin' around".

Practising your fast draw with folk in your line of fire is not messing around? yeah right

My guess would be that's the scene they were rehearsing.
Actor practising the movement of drawing the gun and pointing it towards the camera, while the film crew/director checked camera angles/movement.

I'm pretty sure you'll of watched plenty shows/films where guns have been pointed at cameras, and that doesn't happen without actually pointing a gun at the camera.

Kittyfrisk

RandallFlagg said:

Charlton Heston:

“Here's my credo. There are no good guns, There are no bad guns. A gun in the hands of a bad man is a bad thing. Any gun in the hands of a good man is no threat to anyone, except innocent people that happen to be in front of it.”

Updated in light of recent events.