Is made in America

longjaw

I care more about the quality of the parts used and QC-level of the manufacturer than where something's been made.

monquixote

American guitars are like Swiss watches or French wine. You can get better value from buying elsewhere, but that's the famous location where the romance comes from and it's represented in the premium price. 

I have 3 US guitars and I'm not assumed to say it's because I want a Fender because I like the brand and what they represent. I also think they make very good guitars for the money with strong resale value, but the headstock plays a part.

My brother in law built a kit car for £15k that destroyed his friends £150k Ferrari around the track, but it would never represent what an Italian supercar means to someone in terms of the narrative etc. 

RaymondLin

People move jobs, people can reverse engineer, it’s still a guitar.

If North Korea can figure out how to develop nuclear weapons under sanction. It makes how to make an acoustic guitar from a new company a piece of cake.

I don't get the idea that one company can do it better purely of who they are.  If money is invested, you can make a great product wherever you are.  The skills can be developed (with the money), experience will come in time, and it won't be hundreds of years.  A decade or so max, even PRS didn't take that long to get up to speed, not hunderds of years, he is still alive!

earwighoney

Smellyfingers said:

It might depend on whether it's an electric or acoustic. 

My understanding is that acoustics take more skill to assemble and a company like Gibson or Martin may have literally centuries  of accumulated knowledge. Of course that's the propaganda, but there may be some truth in it.

For Gibson and Martin acoustics, I think it's a little bit different to Fenders and Gibsons, for example there are almost countless options to get a Strat between £100 to £20k, that more often that not will sound like a Fender Strat give or take, of course some are better or worse than others.

Acoustics are a bit different.  There are a number of makers that make guitars that might look like a Martin D28/J45, but I'm not sure how many of them actually sound like a D28 without often spending more than one might spend on actual D28.

I've played the Eastman guitars, and own one, it's a fine guitar for sure, but it doesn't sound like a Martin.  If you want something which actually does sound like a Martin, then I still think you are best of buying a Martin, which isn't to say others eg Furch, etc aren't great guitars but they have their own sound (FTR, I'd rather buy a Furch OM than a Martin OM28, I think the latter is massively over priced for what it is)

I have guitars made in USA, Spain, Sweden, China (the rest), I've owned a few MIJ Fenders as well. I'm of the mindset guitar buyers are no longer consider great guitars can only be made in the USA.

Along those lines, for Spanish character instruments be it flamenco guitars or Granada style instruments, there are some great luthiers who live outside Spain who make superb guitars.

Grumpyrocker

I have three guitars made by World Music Instruments in Korea. I reckon they are as well made as any guitar made anywhere else. 

thegummy

TheMarlin said:

It really makes no difference which country the CNC machine is located in. 

My Eastman T64v was made in Beijing. It’s a flippin’ awesome guitar, just oozes quality, unlike a few USA Gibsons I’ve owned. 

100%

Anyone who still believes that the country something is made in makes a difference has been completely sucked in by marketing guff.

As soon as anyone realises it, they wonder how they could ever have believed in it to begin with because it makes absolutely no sense.

Unless they're secretly (or openly?) racist and think the people in different countries have differing abilities because that's the only definitive difference. But there's no hope for those who think like that, they probably believe all sorts of nonsense.

thegummy

GoldenEraGuitars said:

Perhaps when it came to scaling up an operation (fender did this better than Gibson imo) but as for build quality? No. “Made in USA” really only means anything to those in the States who “buy American”.

From what I’ve seen, Korea and Indonesia make outstanding guitars these days although Japan has always been miles ahead of all of them. 

That's a great point that I've often thought before. To some people in America who have a nationalist ideology, American made has the political advantage even though it has no practical one.

But when people in Britain want to buy American it's senseless. I can only imagine they have read Americans talk of the idea online and copied it without realising the absurdity?

Devil#20

I had a used Japanese Fender Tele bought back in 98/99 at a guitar show in Arlington TX and it was great. I didn't realise how great until I sold it to buy a Fender US Standard. I've since bought better US tele's but without having the Japanese one to hand I'm not convinced they are better. So that was the situation back then. Do Japan still make licence built Fenders or are they manufactured under Tokai branding etc now and are they still as good. I remember at the time that the Japanese built guitars were somewhat of an embarrassment to Fender and their US built guitars.  

thegummy

Don't know if it's already been mentioned but it's important to note that the country doesn't make any difference in itself.

Some companies like Fender choose to make their higher spec guitars in America so an American fender really is better than a Mexican fender; it's just not because of the country it's made in.

But, say, a Schecter made in Korea could be just as good as a fender made in America if it's of a similar spec level.

Don't want people to get carried away in the other direction.

Smellyfingers

earwighoney said:

Smellyfingers said:

It might depend on whether it's an electric or acoustic. 

My understanding is that acoustics take more skill to assemble and a company like Gibson or Martin may have literally centuries  of accumulated knowledge. Of course that's the propaganda, but there may be some truth in it.

For Gibson and Martin acoustics, I think it's a little bit different to Fenders and Gibsons, for example there are almost countless options to get a Strat between £100 to £20k, that more often that not will sound like a Fender Strat give or take, of course some are better or worse than others.

Acoustics are a bit different.  There are a number of makers that make guitars that might look like a Martin D28/J45, but I'm not sure how many of them actually sound like a D28 without often spending more than one might spend on actual D28.

I've played the Eastman guitars, and own one, it's a fine guitar for sure, but it doesn't sound like a Martin.  If you want something which actually does sound like a Martin, then I still think you are best of buying a Martin, which isn't to say others eg Furch, etc aren't great guitars but they have their own sound (FTR, I'd rather buy a Furch OM than a Martin OM28, I think the latter is massively over priced for what it is)

I have guitars made in USA, Spain, Sweden, China (the rest), I've owned a few MIJ Fenders as well. I'm of the mindset guitar buyers are no longer consider great guitars can only be made in the USA.

Leaving aside whether a Martin d18 or d28 is better because it is made in the USA, these plants may benefit from significant economies of scale vs smaller makers, ie their volume makes it cheaper to turn out a high end guitar.

I am sure that Martin and Gibson use their name and nationality to sell rip offs, but I don't this is true across their whole ranges.

idiotwindow

Smellyfingers said:

I am sure that Martin and Gibson use their name and nationality to sell rip offs

There are many guitars that Martin, Gibson and Taylor sell that I wouldn't buy and some that I don't think are great value for money (at least when compared with, say, a similar Eastman) but I don't think any of those companies actually rip anyone off. It's not like they sell a plywood model for £5k or something like that.

crunchman

thegummy said:

Don't know if it's already been mentioned but it's important to note that the country doesn't make any difference in itself.

Some companies like Fender choose to make their higher spec guitars in America so an American fender really is better than a Mexican fender; it's just not because of the country it's made in.

But, say, a Schecter made in Korea could be just as good as a fender made in America if it's of a similar spec level.

Don't want people to get carried away in the other direction.

Not necessarily.  The US guitar might have better hardware on it, but that's easily replaceable.  The hardware on the Mexican guitars isn't bad anyway these days.

Even ignoring the hardware, there are times I've played stock Mexican Strats alongside US guitars and preferred the Mexican instrument.

monquixote

I think this guitar is a really good example: https://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/209819/fs-esp-800-series-strat

It's a full fat ESP, probably be £2.5k new, build quality is probably up to Fender Custom Shop levels, but it still sat on the classifieds for 6 months. 

Despite knowing all this if I was in the market for a Strat I would have zero interest in it because it's not a Fender.

FelineGuitars

If you have guitars to be made in "other countries " using the same materials, the same pickups and parts & the same level of quality control then you should have a very similar product.

Any discussion to the opposite is jingoism or rascism. Always makes me laugh when looking at Mex fendervs USA made ones and think that the staff making them may be the same people or from the same family but separated by a long stretch of Highway 1(PCH/Pacific Coast Highway)

In the past far eastern imports were plagued by initially the feeling that they had never seen or played the instrument that they are copying so you got something that merely approximated the look. This was also true of some British and European makers of the time.

In subsequent years Western brands used far Eastern factories to make a downmarket and cheaper version of their flagship product, so the resulting items were often limited by the cheapening of the timbers, hardware and electronics.

There were exceptions where far Eastern brands raised their game and created instruments that outshone many US brands

Allow the factories to use top grade stuff and you get great guitars.

Of course you get unique offerings from smaller builders and individual luthiers who often may have always made guitars with finesse and passion

Squareheadedfreak

I used to agree USA was the standard, but now I’ve swapped most of my guitars to UK brands, used to have a fender obsession but have sold them all for Patrick eggle/Gordon smith versions.

Fender custom shops 2nd hand are great as art/store of value. But for playability so many little builders out there easily, especially on the 2nd hand market, only thing the bigger builders USA wise have going for them is the minimal depreciation from new & resale value.

tanihhiavlt

dazzajl said:

Smellyfingers said:

It might depend on whether it's an electric or acoustic. 

My understanding is that acoustics take more skill to assemble and a company like Gibson or Martin may have literally centuries  of accumulated knowledge. Of course that's the propaganda, but there may be some truth in it.

Acoustics absolutely take more skill to build than slabs. Skills that had been honed in the Far East and Europe for hundreds of years before there was even a USA

This, Spain have been making spanish guitars for centuries.

Germany have been making parlour guitars for centuries.

The Japanese have been making shamisens for centuries and noone gets the cats nipples lined up like a Japanese shamisen maker.

Also Dan Erlewine loses his shit (in a good way) about guitars made by Michi Matsuda.

Perhaps the idea that we should expect a country to be the best source for anything is a bit dated, I mean with YouTube and Skype communities of practice can span national boundaries. Perhaps for physical activities like running local communities help but for most things these days, country of origin is an unreliable yardstick

The UK has Feline Guitars and M D Phillips.. how do you figure out an average there?

Sassafras

Apparently it all comes down to the Murican climate.

tekbow

Devil#20 said:

I had a used Japanese Fender Tele bought back in 98/99 at a guitar show in Arlington TX and it was great. I didn't realise how great until I sold it to buy a Fender US Standard. I've since bought better US tele's but without having the Japanese one to hand I'm not convinced they are better. So that was the situation back then. Do Japan still make licence built Fenders or are they manufactured under Tokai branding etc now and are they still as good. I remember at the time that the Japanese built guitars were somewhat of an embarrassment to Fender and their US built guitars.  

Quite an interesting story, and it could be argued that there'd be no Fender anymore if it wasn't for japanese manufacturing.

I'm mostly sure of the below

But in any case, it was Fuji-gen who built the bulk of the guitars up until the late 90's when Tokai and Dyna-gakki got more of a share.

Finally Tokai took over from Fuji as primary Manufacturer in the mid-ish 2000's.

Up to that point, Fender Japan were effectively the Japanese distributor of Fender contracting factories, under licence, to produce Fender branded instruments for the domestic market (excluding the early JV Squier period).

We saw a lot of them officially imported in the UK and Europe,  but was much more tightly controlled in the US, because as pointed out, it made US Fenders look bad.

Then sometime after the mid 2000s, Fender bought the japanese distributor and took direct control of what was produced in Japan and a much less interesting product line was initiated.

Last I heard it was still Tokai primarily building for them.

monquixote said:

I think this guitar is a really good example: https://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/209819/fs-esp-800-series-strat

It's a full fat ESP, probably be £2.5k new, build quality is probably up to Fender Custom Shop levels, but it still sat on the classifieds for 6 months. 

Despite knowing all this if I was in the market for a Strat I would have zero interest in it because it's not a Fender.

Nail on the head. I think the main issue is that the people who will be into ESP and know how good these MIJ instruments are, will also be into HB equipped instruments for heavier styles of music, and Not have much use for it. I think someone asked if it was routed for HBs on the thread. Crying shame IMO because the 800 series typically excellent ESP.

Creed_Clicks

With the money American guitars sell for these days, I would absolutely consider any of the UK builders on here. e.g. I have a Fidelity which is awesome. Also Gordon Smith, Ruby, Trent, Feline etc. Not to mention some continental European builders which granted might be more expensive again.
Acoustic probably a different ball game. I would equally look at Maton, Yamaha etc over an American guitar. Seagull and Godin as well...

Sassafras

I've always been disappointed by Martins apart from very old ones.
I think they survive on the hype.