The Doctor Who thread

stickyfiddle

Fretwired said:

Michael Watson

What have we learned? That our first impressions weren’t wrong...it truly is awful and a great show ruined. JW is the worst Doctor ever as she runs around in that ridiculous outfit exclaiming “Ooh! Ooh!” reminiscent of Graham Norton as he runs on to start his show., non stop garbling in that silly voice, and absolutely no gravitas whatsoever. Her gang of companions are awful actors, BW excepted, but he must know he’s in a turkey. I’m not even sure a decent script can save these characters but one that hasn’t been dumbed down to preschool level has got to be worth a try soon....

  

When did Matt Smith have any real gravitas? Or Colin Baker?  

As for outfits, we're a loooong way off ridiculous... 

Fretwired

stickyfiddle said:

Fretwired said:

Michael Watson

What have we learned? That our first impressions weren’t wrong...it truly is awful and a great show ruined. JW is the worst Doctor ever as she runs around in that ridiculous outfit exclaiming “Ooh! Ooh!” reminiscent of Graham Norton as he runs on to start his show., non stop garbling in that silly voice, and absolutely no gravitas whatsoever. Her gang of companions are awful actors, BW excepted, but he must know he’s in a turkey. I’m not even sure a decent script can save these characters but one that hasn’t been dumbed down to preschool level has got to be worth a try soon....

  

When did Matt Smith have any real gravitas? Or Colin Baker?  

As for outfits, we're a loooong way off ridiculous... 

I think his problem is the Doctor is now a woman ...

digitalscream

Fretwired said:

stickyfiddle said:

Fretwired said:

Michael Watson

What have we learned? That our first impressions weren’t wrong...it truly is awful and a great show ruined. JW is the worst Doctor ever as she runs around in that ridiculous outfit exclaiming “Ooh! Ooh!” reminiscent of Graham Norton as he runs on to start his show., non stop garbling in that silly voice, and absolutely no gravitas whatsoever. Her gang of companions are awful actors, BW excepted, but he must know he’s in a turkey. I’m not even sure a decent script can save these characters but one that hasn’t been dumbed down to preschool level has got to be worth a try soon....

  

When did Matt Smith have any real gravitas? Or Colin Baker?  

As for outfits, we're a loooong way off ridiculous... 

I think his problem is the Doctor is now a woman ...

As I said...

digitalscream said:

Fretwired said:

My oh dear was aimed at the guy who made the vid. He had a few valid points but lost the plot so invalided much of what he said. The ratings were falling as the scripts were poor. Capaldi was a lost opportunity - fine actor but too many dodgy stories and crap scripts. He was right about Destroy the Moon - the nadir of modern Doctor Who.

If they're going to teach kids things then that's the end. What people want is entertainment, proper sci fi, some scary monsters and well written stories. Going back to the civil rights era USA will be fraught .. play it by the book and it will be boring and preachy. Chuck in some monsters and you'll wind up people who think it's being trivialised. There are still people alive who lived through that era.

Rule one - go back far enough in time that nobody remembers what happened.

Roswell could make a good story.

He is right about one thing, though - it will be impossible to be male and dislike the show (for any reason) without being called sexist. Taking that a little further, the media will be all over it whether it's good or not; it's kind of a master stroke from the BBC, on the basis that no reviewer will scrag it for fear of being labelled "sexist".

So yeah...it doesn't matter whether Jodie Whitaker ends up being good or not, it doesn't matter whether the scripts are any good or not, and it doesn't even matter if half the audience gives up on the whole endeavour (given that most of the audience are adults with fond memories of the show inspiring their love for sci-fi, not kids who want to be educated about social issues), because it has 100% chance of being hailed as a massive success.

EricTheWeary

Say what you like you miserable bastards I thought that was really good TV. 
 
I wonder to what extent they knew  when making it that it would air on Armstice day, some obvious references so I guess they did. Anyway, I was genuinely engaged with it. Presumably the new alien chaps will be semi regulars. 

Heartfeltdawn

Negative reviews are out there. Try the Radio Times over the episode last week, and the RT is generally not hyper-critical. 

For all intents and purposes, the new Doctor hasn't been the problem thus far and neither has Bradley Walsh. 

EricTheWeary

Heartfeltdawn said:

Negative reviews are out there. Try the Radio Times over the episode last week, and the RT is generally not hyper-critical. 

For all intents and purposes, the new Doctor hasn't been the problem thus far and neither has Bradley Walsh. 

Last week’s wasn’t great but this week was a real step up. 

thumpingrug

Very moving story, clear references to Armistice day and did I also pick up a reference to Brexit too.  Class television.  

axisus

I thought that was a good, intelligent story. And I rather like the underlying message that it's not always a happy place to know the thing someone didn't want to tell you. 

digitalscream

EricTheWeary said:

Last week’s wasn’t great but this week was a real step up. 

Yep, I'll go with that. The acting from the extras was pretty terrible, but...for once, the story was good enough that it didn't actually matter.

EricTheWeary

Just for the sake of completeness / problems focusing at work.

MrsTheWeary said she thought last night's was the best episode yet. I was waiting for a full on bit of proselytising about amazon, zero hours contracts, not paying taxes but we got a gentle explanation of the basics of logistics and a second rate sci fi plot. I feel I miss some kind of arc that would keep me coming back ( I have stuck with The Walking Dead for example despite some real clunkers because I want to know what happens in that world).

It was watchable and unchallenging telly for a Sunday tea time. .

digitalscream

EricTheWeary said:

It was watchable and unchallenging telly for a Sunday tea time. .

Indeed...and while it was almost entirely predictable, and with a useless wet fart of a bad guy, the computer "twist" was at least out of the norm for Who.

As with all of the episodes thus far, though, it barely even skimmed over the surface of what could've been a great sci-fi story. It's like they got the idea, then it got a bit difficult and they just said "Ah, fuck it...mention it in a couple of lines of dialogue and just do the usual companion thing with a bit of a speech from the Doc. They'll love that."

EricTheWeary

digitalscream said:

EricTheWeary said:

It was watchable and unchallenging telly for a Sunday tea time. .

Indeed...and while it was almost entirely predictable, and with a useless wet fart of a bad guy, the computer "twist" was at least out of the norm for Who.

As with all of the episodes thus far, though, it barely even skimmed over the surface of what could've been a great sci-fi story. It's like they got the idea, then it got a bit difficult and they just said "Ah, fuck it...mention it in a couple of lines of dialogue and just do the usual companion thing with a bit of a speech from the Doc. They'll love that."

I have no idea why they did ( are people reading this Discussion who haven't watched it yet? I'll tread carefully) the bit at the end with the robots. They'd foiled the evil plan so The Dr just caused destruction for the hell of it. I may well have misunderstood  but it seemed not so much a plot hole but a pointless plot chasm. 

digitalscream

EricTheWeary said:

digitalscream said:

EricTheWeary said:

It was watchable and unchallenging telly for a Sunday tea time. .

Indeed...and while it was almost entirely predictable, and with a useless wet fart of a bad guy, the computer "twist" was at least out of the norm for Who.

As with all of the episodes thus far, though, it barely even skimmed over the surface of what could've been a great sci-fi story. It's like they got the idea, then it got a bit difficult and they just said "Ah, fuck it...mention it in a couple of lines of dialogue and just do the usual companion thing with a bit of a speech from the Doc. They'll love that."

I have no idea why they did ( are people reading this Discussion who haven't watched it yet? I'll tread carefully) the bit at the end with the robots. They'd foiled the evil plan so The Dr just caused destruction for the hell of it. I may well have misunderstood  but it seemed not so much a plot hole but a pointless plot chasm. 

Yep, that seemed completely gratuitous to me too. So many more obvious solutions to that little problem that wouldn't destroy the robots (which, by the way, were implied to be almost-sentient earlier in the episode). To say that was out-of-character (along with the clear lack of remorse for the consequence afterwards) would be an understatement.

maltingsaudio

Just can’t wait to see them facing Daleks or Cybermen

Rabs

I thought it was a rubbish episode.. So boring and predictable..

Its just at the end when I said to myself, is that it... It just left me disappointed. I think Jodie is a good actress but im not convinced about her being the Doctor..

As has been mentioned, they need a story arc because the individual episode ideas are just crap.

Rabs

Seems there is talk of quitting already..  not good really is it.

https://comicbook.com/tv-shows/2018/11/21/doctor-who-jodie-whittaker-chris-chibnall-leaving-season-12-2019/

It sounds like there may be some trouble behind the scenes of BBC’s Doctor Who.

A new report from British sci-fi magazine Starburst reports that source within the BBC say that showrunner Chris Chibnall may leave the series in 2019 following Doctor Who Season 12. The report suggests that Chibnall has not been happy with the way the show has been run behind-the-scenes.

Should Chinball leave, the rumor suggests that star Jodie Whittaker will exit with him. Chibnall and Whittaker have a previous working relationship from Whittaker’s time on Chibnall’s Broadchurch and, based on the report, she’s not interested in sticking around if Chibnall departs.

Chibnall’s planned departure may also be causing some creative improvising around how Doctor Who Season 12 will be structured. The BBC currently demands that a full series of 10 episodes a year be released. Chibnall reportedly believes that schedule is untenable.

The Doctor Who fansite Outpost Skaro reports that Chibnall and the BBC have come to a compromise and will have Chibnall oversee five or six episodes plus a Christmas Special in 2019. But if the BBC is unable to find a new showrunner promptly, the responsibility to oversee the remaining four or five episodes would fall back onto Chibnall in 2020.

The Outpost Skaro report also suggests that the full series every year schedule isn’t working for Whittaker either. Whittaker had her first child in 2015 and the report suggests that her desire to spend more time with her young child will likely lead Whittaker towards ending her run as the Doctor during the 2019 Christmas special.

The BBC has not commented on these rumors. If the decision for Chibnall and Whittaker to leave is made, the news will likely break officially before their final season premieres.

Whittaker is the first woman to play the Doctor in the franchise’s 54-year history. That’s a responsibility that she takes very seriously.

"It’s more than an honor to play the Doctor," Whittaker said in an interview. "It means remembering everyone I used to be while stepping forward to embrace everything the Doctor stands for: hope. I can’t wait.

"It feels completely overwhelming, as a feminist, as a woman, as an actor, as a human, as someone who wants to continually push themselves and challenge themselves, and not be boxed in by what you’re told you can and can’t be. It feels incredible."

digitalscream

I'm really biting my tongue here about the obvious incongruence in that statement.

Fretwired

I've just got back from visiting my son and grandson - they gave up watching a few episodes ago. There were some other kids there. They don't watch it either. They think its rubbish. They want scary monsters and thrills. I'm guessing the viewing figures are in free fall and more importantly the show may not be selling well abroad.

I gave up watching after episode three.

"It’s more than an honour to play the Doctor," Whittaker said in an interview. "It means remembering everyone I used to be while stepping forward to embrace everything the Doctor stands for: hope. I can’t wait.

"It feels completely overwhelming, as a feminist, as a woman, as an actor, as a human, as someone who wants to continually push themselves and challenge themselves, and not be boxed in by what you’re told you can and can’t be. It feels incredible."

It's just a TV show Jodie ... and not a very good one.

Sleepyscholar

Fretwired said:

I'm guessing the viewing figures are in free fall and more importantly the show may not be selling well abroad.

Look, I don't rate this new series very much at all (though it's perhaps slightly better than I expected from Chibnall). But the first episode had the highest viewing figures since it came back. If the viewing figures didn't drop dramatically after that, it would be very peculiar.

The figures by episode are:

1: 10.96m
2: 9.00m
3. 8.41m
4. 8.22m
5. 7.76m
6. 7.48m

A steady decline (32% over the 6 episodes). To counter your 'guess' (ie, evidence-free piece of hyperbole) let's put that into context. The last series of Capaldi:

1. 6.68m
2. 5.98m
3. 5.61m
4. 5.73m
5. 5.27m
6. 5.53m

A 17% decline. But, from an initial level lower than the lowest yet reached this series. And for more context, let's have the spectacularly successful series 4:

1. 9.14m
2. 9.04m
3. 7.50m
4. 7.06m
5. 6.53m
6. 7.33m

A 19% decline... or a 28% decline to episode 5. And an audience at episodes 5 and 6 lower than this series' episodes 5 and 6. I could have chosen the first Tennant series. It was a bit weird (went up from 1 to 2, and reached another peak with 5, then started dipping again) but the overall figures are very similar.

The rational conclusion is that Doctor Who viewing figures tend to decline over the course of every series. 'Free fall?' Hardly.

You don't like it. I get that. I don't like it. But a lot of people clearly do.

I quite liked the Moffat era. People who didn't had to be patient, and wait until something else came along -- the same thing that happened during the sixth Doctor era, for example. Now that something else has come along, people who don't like it can be patient (watch or not, it's a free choice), until something else comes along.

It's just a TV show Jodie ... and not a very good one.

And what's funny is that this isn't true. It's more than 'just a TV show', even in a narrow, literal-minded interpretation (it's the source of books, magazines, toys, games, audio dramas, for example, as well as being very obviously a part of modern British culture). Whether it's currently good or bad is a matter of opinion. I don't think it's very good, but I don't take that as an excuse to assume, without checking the figures, that the the rest of the world is also deserting it en masse.

thumpingrug

Those viewing figures clearly suggest that compared to there series, this one is doing ok.     I think it takes at least a series for a new Dr to settle in, regardless of who it is (Ecclestone being the only one that has done one and could claim to have done it well).  I feel that if Chibnall/Jodie left after just one series it would be a great shame for the series,  and for the status that has been brought to a female Dr.    There have been a couple of very average episodes this series, but there have also been a couple of very good episodes.  Looked at as a whole I thinks its been a good series so far.