The Football Thread.

TeleMaster

I'm going to review my pre season predictions from last year. Let's see how well I did (or didn't) do! The post is too long so the link to the original post is here: https://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/comment/3648315/#Comment_3648315 and I'll split it over two posts because apparently I'm hitting the character limt.

1/2.

Top 5 and Champions: I predicted City, who ultimately won it but that's not a shock. I expected more from Man Utd, who done rather poorly and Arsenal done better than I expected, taking City right to the wire but ultimately falling short. I don't think you can call them bottle jobs this year, they played well throughout the season.

Chelsea ultimately ended up 6th, I predicted 5th so it's not too far off, and they finished strongly. The Poch departure was a shock considering how well they had done at the end of the season to finish 6th from where they were.

I really wasn't sure how Spurs would get on, either having a really good season or a poor one after losing Kane. I'd say they ended up having a mixed season, going unbeaten for a while and being top for a good length of time but it ultimately slowly fell apart and they finished a respectable 5th. The fans doing the Poznan when losing to City to deny Arsenal points in the title race was hilarious, but it feels like that was a highlight of the season for some Spurs fans, and I think that seems like a losing mentality to me.

Outside favourites for 4th/5th: I said Villa, Villa got 4th, Newcastle got 7th when I predicted 6th, so I'm happy with that. Emery is seriously underrated.

Relegation candidates: I predicted 18th: Bournemouth, Sheffield United and Luton. to go down. 2/3 isn't bad but Bournemouth done much better than I expected and finished 12th. Palace done pretty well in the end and always seem to be bang on mid table but Wolves were hovering around that area but never had any real danger of going down because the promoted teams were so poor. Fulham had a decent season and smashed West Ham 5-0 at the Cottage and 2-0 at the London.

Cont...

TeleMaster

2/2

Surprise team: I think that when you consider the 8 point total deduction, they survived despite it, and if they would've kept those points they would've ended up with 48 points in 11th, and I predicted 11th or 12th, so I'm happy with that. Dyche is another very underrated manager and I'd have him at West Ham.

West Ham: A mixed season really. I predicted 11th and QF of the Europa. We ended up 9th with a huge negative goal difference and a QF knockout in the Europa, so I think that's pretty much what I was expecting. The Moyes Out drama seemed never-ending and I have to say that the time to go probably is now, although you wouldn't catch me holding banners up to get him out. I am very grateful to the Moyesiah, who saved us from relegation twice and got us a European trophy and multiple years of European football, I wish him the best of luck and I'll get behind the new manager who has a bit of a mixed resume but if Tim Steidten believes in him then I'll remain optimistic.

The football was awful at times this year. We sometimes had 20% or less possession and conceded 4,5,6 goals in multiple games. Our form in the second half of the season puts us firmly around the bottom of the table and that's not good. Something needs to change now but it's not all Moyes' fault. Unfortunately some of our signings didn't pan out, our CB's aren't that good and we have a very old squad. We may have spent quite a lot in recent years but we need to spend a lot more. Kalvin Phillips had a very poor season and he just doesn't look like he's got what it takes, but maybe he will find the right club for him. Areola is a great keeper too and Alvarez is a good replacement for Rice but he did drop off a bit towards the end of the season. Bowen got his highest goal haul yet and I hope he stays for a long time. Pacqueta went missing in many games and I wouldn't be surprised if he left to go to City this summer.

Signing of the season: Rice and Palmer were especially good. For West Ham I'd have to say Kudus who is just electric and scored a fantastic overhead kick vs City. Don't expect him to stay too long.

Favourite moments of the season: 

Beating Arsenal 2-0 at the Emirates, then again in the cup, but they got their revenge. 
JWP's goal straight from a corner Vs Wolves was pretty fun to watch, but he still hasn't scored a free kick!
Beating Brighton with a proper shithouse performance to break the curse they have over us was pretty great.

I think I was fairly accurate and pretty proud of getting my Everton prediction spot on if you add the points they lost on (if that works).

Feel free to pick them apart too!

guitars4you

So R Madrid get to the CL final thanks to goals from a Stoke reject - And Atalanta win the Europa cup with a hat trick from a Charlton reject - So much for needing to spend millions on star strikers

Teetonetal

That assumes that the managers at the time were both competent and played a system to suit those players  and of course the quality of players around them.

DrCornelius

guitars4you said:

So R Madrid get to the CL final thanks to goals from a Stoke reject - And Atalanta win the Europa cup with a hat trick from a Charlton reject - So much for needing to spend millions on star strikers

I wouldnt say Lookman was a Charlton reject - my family are from the area and a fair few support Charlton. They were gutted when he left for Everton and there were no shortage of suitors for him. I think my lot (Palace) went for him too.

I must say his was the best individual performance Ive ever seen in a club competition final - not just the 3 fantastic goals but he was constantly an outlet, won loads of fouls and I dont remember any dives or histrionics at all (EDIT - from him that is, I saw a few from some BL players !)

TTony

Teetonetal said:

That assumes that the managers at the time were both competent and played a system to suit those players  and of course the quality of players around them.

And that they were given time to develop their skills in first-team matches and build their confidence.

In UK football, if you have a few bad games, you've got the press, all the experts on SM worldwide and 40,000 fans in the stadium on your back.  That's not going to build your confidence and help you play better.  And with the pressure for results, if the manager has one player who's not performing perfectly every week, that player is soon dropped / replaced.

Could also point to Eric Dier - couldn't get a game for Spurs, moved to Bayern Munich, became an instant first team regular and won the the league title and Champions League in his first season.

Well at least he became an instant first team regular.

guitars4you

Teetonetal said:

That assumes that the managers at the time were both competent and played a system to suit those players  and of course the quality of players around them.

Correct - which makes a mockery of the new high profile manager who just wants to spend spend spend and still fails to deliver - There is no skill to having a big cheque book and spending big - The skill is finding the talent first at a younger level - Look at V V Dijk - Celtic paid under 3 million  - Soton paid around 15 million - LFC paid over 80 million - The talent /skill IMO lies with Soton - Obviously they don't have the power to hang on to him - Look at the Ajax development package and the quality of players it regularly produces - Then look at say the Chelsea spend spend spend package

My favourite story was always K Keegan - Scunthorpe to LFC - Scouts back then would find, develop and utilize such potential - For all their success and the skill of Pep, would you ever see him buying a striker from Scunthorpe - Granted he might not need him

But your are right - It requires the manager to possess the ability to create a system, game plan that gets the best out of the 'companies' assets - Look what a mess Atalanta did to LFC earlier this season - No fluke now is it 

TTony

DrCornelius said:

and I dont remeber any dives or histrionics at all.

Me neither.

And VAR barely got a look in.

These foreign teams just don't know how to play the game ...

thecolourbox

guitars4you said:

My favourite story was always K Keegan - Scunthorpe to LFC - Scouts back then would find, develop and utilize such potential - For all their success and the skill of Pep, would you ever see him buying a striker from Scunthorpe - Granted he might not need him

Now they just poach players at youth level from the smaller clubs, pay pennies in compensation, then loan or release them back to the lower leagues in their early 20s devoid of confidence having "failed" at Chelsea/city etc, a shadow of their former selves

guitars4you

DrCornelius said:

guitars4you said:

So R Madrid get to the CL final thanks to goals from a Stoke reject - And Atalanta win the Europa cup with a hat trick from a Charlton reject - So much for needing to spend millions on star strikers

I wouldnt say Lookman was a Charlton reject - my family are from the area and a fair few support Charlton. They were gutted when he left for Everton and there were no shortage of suitors for him. I think my lot (Palace) went for him too.

I must say his was the best individual performance Ive ever seen in a club competition final - not just the 3 fantastic goals but he was constantly an outlet, won loads of fouls and I dont remember any dives or histrionics at all (EDIT - from him that is, I saw a few from some BL players !)

Don't worry it was me being sarcastic - Not about Charlton but more about the clubs that can't find talent without having to spend spend spend and still fail - As you say it was like a breath of fresh air last night and you'd say the same about both sides, although the Germans didn't show up last night - But still had a great season - Like Ipswich this year in the EFL and what a great season they had with a wonderful attitude and never say die game plan  - The issue is not so much about repeating it, it is hanging on to the appropriate talent, be it manager or players, before the cheque boys come in 

guitars4you

You are going to have to help me on this - Went from Ajax to Man U - Midfield player that was loaded with talent at Ajax - Man U loaned him to Everton last season - Not sure where he is now - He was not a poor player - Granted we don't see all the full behind the scenes info - But somehow his career has gone seriously south - Ditto Sancho but maybe their is a recovery in sight - Same player - Maybe a different attitude on his part, but nevertheless someone is wasting talent, money, ability and lacking ability to place these players in a team 

Whilst not a superstar but nevertheless a good club player -  Kalvin Phillips - Where does he go now with a £130K a week wage bracket - There is no way we can afford that, even if we get back in the PL - He wasn't a dick head as a person at Leeds, in fact quite level headed (for a footballer)  - 4 years ago he was the English player of the tournament at the Euro's - Maybe he wasn't good enough for City, but either way City, money and Pep have probably finished him at PL level   

TTony

Van De Beek?

guitars4you

TTony said:

Van De Beek?

That's it - He could have done a good Defensive Midfield or Attacking Midfield role in many good PL clubs - Maybe a poor mans Modric, but on that basis everyone is - But he was not a mug 

thecolourbox

Bayern supposedly in talks to get Kompany as manager, after Burnley did so well this season. Maybe Liverpool will look to get Chris Wilder in to replace Klopp?

guitars4you

thecolourbox said:

Bayern supposedly in talks to get Kompany as manager, after Burnley did so well this season. Maybe Liverpool will look to get Chris Wilder in to replace Klopp?

Yes I was a bit surprised by that - Either they know something we don't or see something we don't - To be fair he probably has the required skill levels but with the resources available to Burnley in such a tough league, it was never going to happen 

Some young managers, only recently retired as a player, must have something that shows through at such an age - Pep for instance went effectively straight in to the hot seat at Barca - Look at Alonso now at Beyer L - There must be something about some players that shows at such. young age 

TeleMaster

My brother is in Dublin, said it was a great night. Atalanta were great and Lockman was awesome.

www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/c2llxjxq955o.amp

He's a bit of a clown if he did this. Some of them are pretty obvious. 

mikeyrob73

guitars4you said:

TTony said:

Van De Beek?

That's it - He could have done a good Defensive Midfield or Attacking Midfield role in many good PL clubs - Maybe a poor mans Modric, but on that basis everyone is - But he was not a mug 

He was utter tripe at Everton 

guitars4you

mikeyrob73 said:

guitars4you said:

TTony said:

Van De Beek?

That's it - He could have done a good Defensive Midfield or Attacking Midfield role in many good PL clubs - Maybe a poor mans Modric, but on that basis everyone is - But he was not a mug 

He was utter tripe at Everton 

It appears many are so not unique in that regard 

UnclePsychosis

guitars4you said:

thecolourbox said:

Bayern supposedly in talks to get Kompany as manager, after Burnley did so well this season. Maybe Liverpool will look to get Chris Wilder in to replace Klopp?

Yes I was a bit surprised by that - Either they know something we don't or see something we don't - To be fair he probably has the required skill levels but with the resources available to Burnley in such a tough league, it was never going to happen 

Some young managers, only recently retired as a player, must have something that shows through at such an age - Pep for instance went effectively straight in to the hot seat at Barca - Look at Alonso now at Beyer L - There must be something about some players that shows at such. young age 

Pep got the Barca job on the back of doing an absolutely phenomenal job with their B team. There's a load of interesting material out there on it, well worth a read. 

The "pEp iS jUsT a ChEqUeBoOk mAnAgEr" people conveniently like to forget how he got to where he is, it wasn't an accident. 

guitars4you

UnclePsychosis said:

guitars4you said:

thecolourbox said:

Bayern supposedly in talks to get Kompany as manager, after Burnley did so well this season. Maybe Liverpool will look to get Chris Wilder in to replace Klopp?

Yes I was a bit surprised by that - Either they know something we don't or see something we don't - To be fair he probably has the required skill levels but with the resources available to Burnley in such a tough league, it was never going to happen 

Some young managers, only recently retired as a player, must have something that shows through at such an age - Pep for instance went effectively straight in to the hot seat at Barca - Look at Alonso now at Beyer L - There must be something about some players that shows at such. young age 

Pep got the Barca job on the back of doing an absolutely phenomenal job with their B team. There's a load of interesting material out there on it, well worth a read. 

The "pEp iS jUsT a ChEqUeBoOk mAnAgEr" people conveniently like to forget how he got to where he is, it wasn't an accident. 

I know Pep came via the B team - My point was that some players, even when they are still playing, must be displaying potential coaching/management skills - There are many great players out there, but what they can do by instinct they can't explain to others what the game is about etc - The likes of Pep obviously can - My point is that the hierarchy must see this 

For all his considerable skills, he has still worked within an elite spend spend spend environment, be it City, Barca, B Munich