The F1 thread

Fretwired

fretmeister said:

Fretwired said:

stickyfiddle said:

Apparently RB have been modding the Renault engine in their mysterious "Building 9", to be used next year branded as Infiniti, presumably still paying Nissan/Renault a hefty sum. If true it would be a huge step...  

http://thejudge13.com/2015/11/05/exclusive-red-bull-secure-an-engine-for-2016/

Wow .. never saw that coming .. Mercedes should start worrying.

Yeah.

In about 2018.

Red Bull have the best car chassis in F1 which is why Mercedes and Ferrari refused to give them engines. Red Bull engineers are clever and the team have deep pockets. We don't know how long they've been secretly working on this so I wouldn't discount them yet. Mateschitz won't fund a team that can't win races.

Mercedes won't dominate in 2016 like they have in 2015.

fretmeister

It's not about money.

They may well have the best aero team in the universe, but aero engineers are not engine designers. Completely different areas of expertise.

The best guys are already at Merc and Ferrari. Renault couldn't hire their way out of their problems and at the moment neither can Red Bull. Anyone leaving Merc or Ferrari will be on gardening leave for 12 months.

In a couple of years when people become available - sure. No doubt at all.

But next year it is still a development of Renault tech and thus flawed.

Fretwired

fretmeister said:

It's not about money.

They may well have the best aero team in the universe, but aero engineers are not engine designers. Completely different areas of expertise.

The best guys are already at Merc and Ferrari. Renault couldn't hire their way out of their problems and at the moment neither can Red Bull. Anyone leaving Merc or Ferrari will be on gardening leave for 12 months.

In a couple of years when people become available - sure. No doubt at all.

But next year it is still a development of Renault tech and thus flawed.

Mario Illien, the former Ilmor engine guru, has been working in the new Milton Keynes building 9 for over a year and assisting Renault in solving fundamental design flaws in their F1 power unit. Much of this revolves around the engine block.

Red Bull have employed a team of engine designers ....

fretmeister

Fretwired said:

fretmeister said:

It's not about money.

They may well have the best aero team in the universe, but aero engineers are not engine designers. Completely different areas of expertise.

The best guys are already at Merc and Ferrari. Renault couldn't hire their way out of their problems and at the moment neither can Red Bull. Anyone leaving Merc or Ferrari will be on gardening leave for 12 months.

In a couple of years when people become available - sure. No doubt at all.

But next year it is still a development of Renault tech and thus flawed.

Mario Illien, the former Ilmor engine guru, has been working in the new Milton Keynes building 9 for over a year and assisting Renault in solving fundamental design flaws in their F1 power unit. Much of this revolves around the engine block.

Red Bull have employed a team of engine designers ....

And as we have seen their "assisting Renault" has really worked so far.

Fretwired

fretmeister said:

Fretwired said:

fretmeister said:

It's not about money.

They may well have the best aero team in the universe, but aero engineers are not engine designers. Completely different areas of expertise.

The best guys are already at Merc and Ferrari. Renault couldn't hire their way out of their problems and at the moment neither can Red Bull. Anyone leaving Merc or Ferrari will be on gardening leave for 12 months.

In a couple of years when people become available - sure. No doubt at all.

But next year it is still a development of Renault tech and thus flawed.

Mario Illien, the former Ilmor engine guru, has been working in the new Milton Keynes building 9 for over a year and assisting Renault in solving fundamental design flaws in their F1 power unit. Much of this revolves around the engine block.

Red Bull have employed a team of engine designers ....

And as we have seen their "assisting Renault" has really worked so far.

None of their work has been released - RB have been negotiating with Renault. I understand Red Bull have some ex-Cosworth guys as well.

fretmeister

More guys that haven't been involved in building a current F1 engine then?

Presumably the guys that couldn't get jobs at Merc / Ferrari / and even Honda?

Don't get me wrong - I hope you are right and there is more competition, but I can't see it, not for a couple of years.

Effectively what Red Bull are doing is exactly what Honda did. Lots of engineers and lots of money and zero success.

Fretwired

fretmeister said:

More guys that haven't been involved in building a current F1 engine then?

Presumably the guys that couldn't get jobs at Merc / Ferrari / and even Honda?

Don't get me wrong - I hope you are right and there is more competition, but I can't see it, not for a couple of years.

Effectively what Red Bull are doing is exactly what Honda did. Lots of engineers and lots of money and zero success.

Cosworth are still involved in motor racing. These guys are clever - it's about getting up to speed with the regulations and not being too clever like Honda. Mercedes started well before anyone else .. the others will catch up. Red Bull at least won some races this year.

I'll bet they will close the gap come 2016.

fretmeister

They may well become the defacto 3rd team rather than sharing that with Williams.

Can't see them being any closer than that next year.

chillidoggy

I reckon the gap will close a bit, but my money is still on Merc to at least get the constructors championship next year. Hopefully they won't have it all their own way, and the racing is closer.

fretmeister

Seems like Judge13 is talking bollocks

http://planetf1.com/news/illien-refutes-red-bull-rumours/

Fretwired

fretmeister said:

Seems like Judge13 is talking bollocks

http://planetf1.com/news/illien-refutes-red-bull-rumours/

Interesting .. I think there are a few grains of truth though .. Red Bull want their own engine.

chillidoggy

Refuting rumours is de rigueur in F1, though. I wouldn't be at all surprised if the Renault/Illien deal comes off.

stickyfiddle

"I know nothing of a dispute. I also have no idea what upgrades Renault has incorporated in its modified engine. I cannot imagine that a large company like Renault [would] secretly install my development."

Just because he doesn't know anything about a dispute doesn't mean there isn't one. Being very cynical, his statement doesn't mean Renault will install his work in their engines - Red Bull would be installing it in their own Renault engine.... Also entirely possible he doesn't know where Renault is going next with its engine, because he's focussed only on where he's going with his own version. Plausible deniability...

chillidoggy

Yup. This lot are better politicians than...........................errrr....................politicians!

chillidoggy

Cracking quote from Fred on the Red Bull engine fiasco:-

"Apparently they don't want this year's Ferrari engine for next year, so probably they don't want this year's Honda engine for next year."

musicegbdf

Brazil ruined by an idiot of a director. Can't they get someone who understands racing. Who wants to watch a parade on 14yh place when there is a fight up front....
Ruined the race

Fretwired

What fight up front? There's no way Hamilton can overtake Rosberg in the dirty air .. the regulations need changing so this borefest can improve.

octatonic

What a snooze that was.

chillidoggy

Must admit it wasn't as exciting as I'd hoped. Pleased to see Rosberg win, though.

As for Malfunctionado, when is someone going to wake up to the fact it's only a matter of time before the twat does something fatal?

Heartfeltdawn

The best thing about that race was the roasted parmesan parsnips I prepped up and threw in the oven. 

chillidoggy said

As for Malfunctionado, when is someone going to wake up to the fact it's only a matter of time before the twat does something fatal?

Put him in a tank and send him to Syria. Conflict over in minutes.