The F1 thread

Fretwired

It seems a chunk of the press and older drivers like Sir Jackie Stewart blame Hamilton. I can see Merc dropping one of their drivers at the end of the year. Maybe time for Hamilton to move on.

PC_Dave

Fretwired said:

Maybe time for Hamilton to move on.

I really, really hope so.

stickyfiddle

Hamilton has a contract for 2017 AND 2018 with Mercedes. Why would he want to break that? No other car is quicker. Same for Rosberg - I can't see him wanting to leave even if Ham pips him again this season. He won't win a title against Vettel in the current Ferrari, and RB won't want to trade either of their guys for him.

And who would Mercedes want to replace either of them? The RB guys are supposedly tied up, Bottas is not as quick as Ham or Nico, Hulk is looking unspectacular as the years go by. Wehrlein is still unproven for that big a step. Alonso is the obvious one, I guess, and would move mountains to swap the McLaren for a proven winner, but that's not going to calm down the relationship between drivers!

Fretwired

stickyfiddle said:

Hamilton has a contract for 2017 AND 2018 with Mercedes. Why would he want to break that? No other car is quicker. Same for Rosberg - I can't see him wanting to leave even if Ham pips him again this season. He won't win a title against Vettel in the current Ferrari, and RB won't want to trade either of their guys for him.

And who would Mercedes want to replace either of them? The RB guys are supposedly tied up, Bottas is not as quick as Ham or Nico, Hulk is looking unspectacular as the years go by. Wehrlein is still unproven for that big a step. Alonso is the obvious one, I guess, and would move mountains to swap the McLaren for a proven winner, but that's not going to calm down the relationship between drivers!

The Mercedes car is a mobile brand advertising machine. Having two drivers crash out is bad for business. Rosberg and Hamilton are now at war - this will happen again and while they chase each other it will give Red Bull and Ferrari a chance to hunt them down. There's also talk in the paddock that Hamilton's lifestyle is getting in the way - he flies to the US and parties. Hamilton's clearly out of sorts and one commentator has likened him to James Hunt whose lifestyle stopped him from winning more than one championship.

There are plenty of fast young drivers coming through - I think Merc will have to split these two up and if Rosberg wins the championship it won't be him that's leaving

darcym

Bottas could be as fast as Hamilton we don't know

Hulkernberg certainly has proven he's just as fast on paper but never had the chance - he's looking blank in FI at the moment due to how FI are operating, Hulk brings little in sponsorship to the team and is a paid driver $3mill per year I think, Checko on the other hand brings a fair chunk of money and takes a wage from that money - the whole team is in a mess, and certainly not being run well I wouldn't judge hulkenberg on the first 4 years of this season, rather than his proven ability over years - but it is a fair comment to make.

Vesteppen is in a questionable contract state, as is Carlos Jnr, both would be worth a look.

There are a couple of others to consider, however unlikely, Button - out of contract, very safe and fast in a good car, excellent development driver, a year or two contract to allow them to firm up other possible drivers ? alonso - big money buy out, but it would depend on who goes from Mercedes.

Raikonnen is also out of contract, like button would be a sound possibility in the short term.

Rosberg is out of contract the year, so it really depends what mercedes want from a driver, in terms of speed/wins/marketing/nationality.

I don't see it as a big deal to be honest, Merc hold the trump cards for 2016 - with new rules in 2017, they may not, so will merc be the right place to be in 2017 ?

would Hamilton want to buy out his own contract ?

lots of unknown in 2017.

Fretwired

Mercedes might like to see the back of Hamilton and bring in a fresh face to partner Rosberg - Germans don't like wasting management time massaging egos. Button's off to Williams to replace Massa if the gossip is to be believed. Hamilton could go to Ferrari to replace Kimi. Max will stay at Red Bull - they have deep pockets and a youth orientated brand, so they won't want to lose him. And it's clear they have a fast car let down by the engine - Renault have offered them a deal and are determined to come out on top again. And don't write off Honda - I think they will come good engine wise. It depends on whether the team can build a decent car. Who knows, Hamilton may go back to McLaren.

I'd love Hamilton to go to a team with a fast car as the mutual hatred between Hamilton and Rosberg could be what F1 needs - some serious needle between two drivers like the old days.

chillidoggy

Whatever happens between Ham and Rosberg, I think it's sure to liven things up a bit for the rest of the season eh, chaps?

I did feel a bit sad for Ricciardo, but full marks to Verstappen, virtually faultless drive, and what a result! I also felt a bit sad for Alonso.

darcym

There are some great drivers in the field at the moment, both in terms of experienced racers/drivers and up coming drivers, as well as a few useless (relatively speaking) drivers.

The mix of some of the best drivers in a long time against some very exciting young talent is excellent, a lot of the cars are on a reasonably level ball park in the midfield with only the merc standing out at the front and the sauber and manor lagging quite a way behind at the back.

Remove the Mercedes from the discussion and you've got some really interesting fights and races going on, even with mercedes in, there are some strong drives going on.

Fretwired

I think Ricciardo realises Max is now the blue-eyed boy. The kid has a cool head and I can see him winning quite a few world championships given the right car. Ricciardo is good, but he's not in the Alonso, Hamilton, Vettel league.

If the other teams improve (Renault and Honda have major engine upgrades) and Hamilton continues to make mistakes and fails to score enough points I can see Mercedes being forced to use team orders and back Rosberg.

darcym

I think Ricciardo is that good, he's not got Max hype at the moment, but that will clam down, more so when he doesn't shine in a race, (assuming that happens).

Have a look at him in the lower formula, he was a killer there and not in the best car, when he first moved to Red Bull, he had the measure of Vettel as an equal, could he sustain that, we never got the chance to see, Ricciardo's head is very cool, he's well liked and integrated into the team, he's right up there, look at that qualifying lap in Spain.

Fretwired

darcym said:

I think Ricciardo is that good, he's not got Max hype at the moment, but that will clam down, more so when he doesn't shine in a race, (assuming that happens).

Have a look at him in the lower formula, he was a killer there and not in the best car, when he first moved to Red Bull, he had the measure of Vettel as an equal, could he sustain that, we never got the chance to see, Ricciardo's head is very cool, he's well liked and integrated into the team, he's right up there, look at that qualifying lap in Spain.

I see Ricciardo as a percentages guy - he's like Button. Smooth, fast but he lacks and killer instinct and aggression that an Alonso or Hamilton has. He was all over the place with Vettel yesterday and made some seriously dodgy moves that didn't pay off but gave him a puncture. I expect Max to beat him after he's settled in the team.

darcym

I'm not enjoying this season at all, however Ricciardo's season is one that I will keep an eye on this year.

PC_Dave

Fretwired said:

darcym said:

I think Ricciardo is that good, he's not got Max hype at the moment, but that will clam down, more so when he doesn't shine in a race, (assuming that happens).

Have a look at him in the lower formula, he was a killer there and not in the best car, when he first moved to Red Bull, he had the measure of Vettel as an equal, could he sustain that, we never got the chance to see, Ricciardo's head is very cool, he's well liked and integrated into the team, he's right up there, look at that qualifying lap in Spain.

I see Ricciardo as a percentages guy - he's like Button. Smooth, fast but he lacks and killer instinct and aggression that an Alonso or Hamilton has. He was all over the place with Vettel yesterday and made some seriously dodgy moves that didn't pay off but gave him a puncture. I expect Max to beat him after he's settled in the team.

None of those moves were dodgy, he was on a much fresher set of tyres and he was using them to his advantage. Yes he was slightly pissed off at the team for changing his strategy, but he was just doing what he is paid to do.

Pirelli let him down, not his "dodgy moves"

stickyfiddle

I think Ricciardo is a class act, but obviously we haven't quite seen him in a potentially championship winning car yet. I'd put him at least on par with Rosberg but with far better overtaking skills. I certianly don't think he's lacking any "killer instinct" stuff. 

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x21xond_f1-germany-2014-alonso-ricciardo-battle_sport

Fretwired

PC_Dave said:

Fretwired said:

darcym said:

I think Ricciardo is that good, he's not got Max hype at the moment, but that will clam down, more so when he doesn't shine in a race, (assuming that happens).

Have a look at him in the lower formula, he was a killer there and not in the best car, when he first moved to Red Bull, he had the measure of Vettel as an equal, could he sustain that, we never got the chance to see, Ricciardo's head is very cool, he's well liked and integrated into the team, he's right up there, look at that qualifying lap in Spain.

I see Ricciardo as a percentages guy - he's like Button. Smooth, fast but he lacks and killer instinct and aggression that an Alonso or Hamilton has. He was all over the place with Vettel yesterday and made some seriously dodgy moves that didn't pay off but gave him a puncture. I expect Max to beat him after he's settled in the team.

None of those moves were dodgy, he was on a much fresher set of tyres and he was using them to his advantage. Yes he was slightly pissed off at the team for changing his strategy, but he was just doing what he is paid to do.

Pirelli let him down, not his "dodgy moves"

Vettel might disagree as Ricciardo nearly took him out twice .. :-)

darcym

he slid and made a mistake, Vettel has made that same mistake himself when at Red Bull - Canadian grand prix for example

Fretwired

darcym said:

he slid and made a mistake, Vettel has made that same mistake himself when at Red Bull - Canadian grand prix for example

Looked like he carried too much speed as he was frustrated ...

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x4anfis_f1-2016-spain-gp-vettel-angry-at-ricciardo-team-radio-15-05-2016-hd_auto

darcym

he did carry too much speed, pushing for the overtake, don't think anyone could argue that, but at the same time, he's pushing for the pass, it's a mistake, certainly shows a strong desire to pass and win (not the race) but beat the others. he recovered it. Vettel has made exactly the same mistake ( can actually think of one example in Japan where he did it and got the pass done because the other driver (Kimi in a lotus I think) moved out of the way because he was too hot, he didn't make that same complaint there and didn't give the place back, it's just hard driving, not out of control of anything like that, it's not locking wheels coming in like a missile, it was just pushing a tad too hard

Garthy

Re: the overlap- it is front wing past the rear axel line. The other rule is that you have to leave a car's width if you are not in the racing line. Absolutely nothing else matters surrounding the Merc incident.

PC_Dave

Fretwired said:

PC_Dave said:

Fretwired said:

Vettel might disagree as Ricciardo nearly took him out twice .. :-)

Nearly being the operative word - this is racing! If Ricciardo didn't at least try then what is the point of him being there? Yes it might not have been the cleanest attempt, but on that circuit there aren't that many places to try. He didn't hit Vettel, he didn't take him out of the race, so what's the problem?