The F1 thread

Fretwired

Interesting - after testing at the Barcelona track yesterday Vettel admits the usual tyres would've been 'even worse' for Ferrari:

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/136052/vettel-normal-tyres-even-worse-for-ferrari

Boromedic

Cheers for that Fret, interesting to read him being so frank and open about it. Wonder if it's a ruse!! 

Fretwired

Boromedic said:

Cheers for that Fret, interesting to read him being so frank and open about it. Wonder if it's a ruse!! 

Not sure about a ruse: more like a public call to Ferrari International Assistance and ex-Ferrari boss Jean Todt for some help .. ;-)

Boromedic

 

Cols

The Mercs were apparently losing a lot of time in the wriggly final section at Barcelona, so they’re worried about the twists and turns of Monaco; even Haas might be a threat to them.

Odds on Max will stick it in the wall at least once over the course of the weekend.

Modellista

Fretwired said:

Not sure about a podium - I think it will be a Red Bull/Ferrari lockout. Woolf is concerned that the Mercs lost serious amounts of time to Red Bull, Ferrari and McLaren (Alonso) in the final twisty section of the Barcelona track. That doesn't bode well for Monaco - having the most powerful engine in F1 is of no benefit if you're car can't go round a corner as fast as the competition. Merc could even struggle against Haas.

Cols said:

The Mercs were apparently losing a lot of time in the wriggly final section at Barcelona, so they’re worried about the twists and turns of Monaco; even Haas might be a threat to them.

Hamilton wasn't losing any time in the final sector at Barcelona in race trim, in fact he was 3rd fastest in that sector and 4th in the other two.

Bottas was indeed slower, he went from 3rd to 5th. 

Ricciardo was quick in all three sectors, he just couldn't manage to convert it to a decent finish position.

Max clearly loved the final sector, going from 5th to 2nd.

Qualy did show a greater differential for the Mercs in the final sector, but the HAAS has never been faster than a Mercedes, even in the final sector.

My final point - I've never heard of this correlation between the final sector of Barcelona and performance in Monaco before.  It's a new one on me.  Where has it come from, and is it really true?  Having reviewed historical data I can find no correlation at all.  Just to pick one example, Vettel was considerably slower in the final sector of Barcelona last year (5th instead of 2nd in the other two sectors) yet qualified second in Monaco and won the race.

Garthy

To build on that, where the utter fuck did this guff about Haas beating Merc come from? 

Modellista

Garthy said:

To build on that, where the utter fuck did this guff about Haas beating Merc come from? 

Ditto the imaginary performance from Alonso.  He was 8th quickest in the final sector in both quali and the race.

Fretwired

modellista said:

My final point - I've never heard of this correlation between the final sector of Barcelona and performance in Monaco before.  It's a new one on me.  Where has it come from, and is it really true?  Having reviewed historical data I can find no correlation at all.  Just to pick one example, Vettel was considerably slower in the final sector of Barcelona last year (5th instead of 2nd in the other two sectors) yet qualified second in Monaco and won the race.

It's Merc doing calculations (sic) - you have to factor out the speed that's carried into the final sector as at Monaco most of the track is slow corners with only a few shorter fast straights. As speed isn't important its cars which are good in twisty parts of the track which are Red Bull and include McLaren and Haas. Send an email to Wolff. He's the guy who has set expectations low. He could be sandbagging but we'll see.

Monaco is a crap track. My least favourite race.

Modellista

Well, speed is still the most important thing at every race track.  If you mean power is not as important at Monaco, yes, I think we'd all agree on that.  So everyone expects Merc to have less of an advantage (if they even have one this season) and for Red Bull to have a good chance, which they do at every race anyway.  I've not heard Wolff talk about a threat from Haas or McLaren and I think that's stretching credibility.

Personally I can see them all being very close and for the race to be decided by who can keep their nose clean.  Alonso's racecraft will be more important than his aero package.

Monaco's great thrill is to see the tiny margins that the drivers work within.  Lots of people complain about great big run-off areas in the new tracks, so Monaco is an antidote to that.  Personally I can't stand the soulless desert races with no atmosphere and no audience.  Would you really rather attend Abu Dhabi than Monaco?

stickyfiddle

modellista said:

Well, speed is still the most important thing at every race track.  If you mean power is not as important at Monaco, yes, I think we'd all agree on that.  So everyone expects Merc to have less of an advantage (if they even have one this season) and for Red Bull to have a good chance, which they do at every race anyway.  I've not heard Wolff talk about a threat from Haas or McLaren and I think that's stretching credibility.

Personally I can see them all being very close and for the race to be decided by who can keep their nose clean.  Alonso's racecraft will be more important than his aero package.

Monaco's great thrill is to see the tiny margins that the drivers work within.  Lots of people complain about great big run-off areas in the new tracks, so Monaco is an antidote to that.  Personally I can't stand the soulless desert races with no atmosphere and no audience.  Would you really rather attend Abu Dhabi than Monaco?

As a 3-time Abu Dhabi attendee, I can confirm that the AD race is pretty shitty to watch in person, though the non-F1 stuff they put on is usually great. This year Guns n' Roses are playing, and in past years we've had Muse & The Who! 

I'm not sure Monaco would be any better in person.

Modellista

stickyfiddle said:

As a 3-time Abu Dhabi attendee, I can confirm that the AD race is pretty shitty to watch in person, though the non-F1 stuff they put on is usually great. This year Guns n' Roses are playing, and in past years we've had Muse & The Who! 

I'm not sure Monaco would be any better in person.

Interesting to hear from someone who's been to AD.  Didn't appeal to me before, certainly doesn't now!  A long way to go to see GnR.

I've not seen the Monaco race, but I once drove the track (in a hired Peugeot) with all the stands and boards in place the year the Formula E race was the weekend before F1 and they left the detritus out all week.  I have to say it was one of the most memorable moments of my life, having associated Monaco with F1 from a young age.  The place just oozes atmosphere, looks stunning, and will forever represent the glamorous side of the sport.  

(My lap time was 8 mins 50.  Somewhat outside the 107% rule.)

I'll grant you the actual racing isn't a patch on Spa, Silverstone or wherever, but it does place unique demands on the drivers simply to keep it out of the wall.  The weekend itself is a great celebration of F1 past and present.

stickyfiddle

I live here, so it's only 30 mins down the road. But it *is* the best part of 300 quid for a weekend grandstand ticket...!

I agree with you on the Monaco atmosphere thing, but having been to my fair share of posh do's in Dubai I wonder if it's mostly  vapid, good-looking people with no substance who don't really know or care about F1 beyond being seen to have been there. 

Fretwired

modellista said:

Well, speed is still the most important thing at every race track.

No it isn't. It's how fast you go round the track which is a different thing. The cars traction, the ability to turn into a corner with the confidence to carry speed etc.

Heartfeltdawn

Abu Dhabi is a shite circuit. All the flashy shit but they forgot to build a decent track to drive on. This is different from Bahrain which manages to throw up good races on it in various different categories. 

modellista said:

I have to say it was one of the most memorable moments of my life, having associated Monaco with F1 from a young age.  The place just oozes atmosphere, looks stunning, and will forever represent the glamorous side of the sport.  

(My lap time was 8 mins 50.  Somewhat outside the 107% rule.)

I'll grant you the actual racing isn't a patch on Spa, Silverstone or wherever, but it does place unique demands on the drivers simply to keep it out of the wall.  The weekend itself is a great celebration of F1 past and present.

So it's equivalent to taking Usain Bolt and Justin Gatlin off of the running track and making them compete on a tightrope instead so we can admire the unique demands of trying to run fast whilst trying not to fall off. 

Monaco is a backslapping self-congratulatory event which demonstrates all the shittest bits of modern F1. It beggars belief that Silverstone had to be carved up into its current pisspoor state trackwise in the name of progress yet we keep on going back to this archaic tax haven shitefest. 

The best bit about Monaco? When it's over and I can return to watching 'cos Canada is round the corner. 

DesVegas

Maybe I will watch the qualifying but you won't catch me watch a Monaco race again. So very dull

Cols

Garthy said:

To build on that, where the utter fuck did this guff about Haas beating Merc come from? 

Toto Wolff is, on the record, worried about how Monaco will go.  Last year Merc were all at sea, with Bottas in 4th and Hamilton languishing on 14th (up to a mighty 7th in the race).

This year’s performances don’t suggest otherwise; the strengths of Mercedes lie in high speed corners and straight line grunt rather than nimble agility in low speed complexes.  The tyre constructions at Monaco are back to those seen before Spain (those at Spain, which both Ferrari and Red Bull also lobbied for, were specifically for high speed/medium downforce tracks such as Barcelona, Silverstone, Spa and Suzuka).

Basically the Mercedes does not suit Monaco, in terms of how it performs in low speed corners or how it treats the tyres specified for the race.  The characteristics of Monaco play into the hands of Ferrari, Red Bull and Haas.

Modellista

Fretwired said:

modellista said:

Well, speed is still the most important thing at every race track.

No it isn't. It's how fast you go round the track which is a different thing. The cars traction, the ability to turn into a corner with the confidence to carry speed etc.

Perhaps you could enlighten us why "how fast you go round the track" is different to the more succinct word "speed". 

Fretwired

modellista said:

Fretwired said:

modellista said:

Well, speed is still the most important thing at every race track.

No it isn't. It's how fast you go round the track which is a different thing. The cars traction, the ability to turn into a corner with the confidence to carry speed etc.

Perhaps you could enlighten us why "how fast you go round the track" is different to the more succinct word "speed". 

Speed implies the fastest car will win which isn't the case. The fastest car won't necessarily win around what is the slowest track.

Modellista

Fretwired said:

modellista said:

Well, speed is still the most important thing at every race track.

No it isn't. It's how fast you go round the track. 

This is going to be a modern classic.