The F1 thread

stickyfiddle

Fretwired said:

There are rumours circulating that McLaren employees have staged a protest at how badly the team is run and want a change in management at the top. Can find anything in the papers though.

Wouldn’t surprise me. They’ve been a mess for 5+ years now.

Fretwired

stickyfiddle said:

Fretwired said:

There are rumours circulating that McLaren employees have staged a protest at how badly the team is run and want a change in management at the top. Can find anything in the papers though.

Wouldn’t surprise me. They’ve been a mess for 5+ years now.

Found something ... staff want Whitmarsh back ... :-)

https://www.planetf1.com/news/mclaren-facing-revolt-as-staff-want-whitmarsh-intervention/

stickyfiddle

Fretwired said:

stickyfiddle said:

Fretwired said:

There are rumours circulating that McLaren employees have staged a protest at how badly the team is run and want a change in management at the top. Can find anything in the papers though.

Wouldn’t surprise me. They’ve been a mess for 5+ years now.

Found something ... staff want Whitmarsh back ... :-)

https://www.planetf1.com/news/mclaren-facing-revolt-as-staff-want-whitmarsh-intervention/

I’m not convinced that Whitmarsh is the answer. He might be a lovely bloke, but he’s also the guy that oversaw the ditching of the super-quick car they had in 2012 for a completely new concept in 2013 which was a pile of shit.

That said, I can’t quite comprehend how Boullier is still in a job.

Cols

stickyfiddle said:

Fretwired said:

stickyfiddle said:

Fretwired said:

There are rumours circulating that McLaren employees have staged a protest at how badly the team is run and want a change in management at the top. Can find anything in the papers though.

Wouldn’t surprise me. They’ve been a mess for 5+ years now.

Found something ... staff want Whitmarsh back ... :-)

https://www.planetf1.com/news/mclaren-facing-revolt-as-staff-want-whitmarsh-intervention/

I’m not convinced that Whitmarsh is the answer. He might be a lovely bloke, but he’s also the guy that oversaw the ditching of the super-quick car they had in 2012 for a completely new concept in 2013 which was a pile of shit.

That said, I can’t quite comprehend how Boullier is still in a job.

Daily Mail originally.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/formulaone/article-5849995/McLaren-face-revolt-staff-appeal-former-boss-Martin-Whitmarsh-help-ailing-F1-team.html

Whitmarsh is still close to Mansour Oijeh and has apparently been discussing things with him.  I'd say Boullier is a dead man walking.

rlw

I'd say that Boullier was worse than useless at Renault and why McLaren ever took him on remains a mystery to me.

sweepy

If you think Boullier is bad, he’s not a patch on Cyril Abiteboul, the man is a buffoon of the highest order. I have an old dear friend who has been with the (now) Renault team since the Toleman days and has quite an insight into the fluctuating fortunes of an F1 team. As a manager, Boullier was actually very good, there were raw materials in the stores to build things and it wasn’t micro managed to within an inch of its life 

Cols

rlw said:

I'd say that Boullier was worse than useless at Renault and why McLaren ever took him on remains a mystery to me.

I would guess that at the time Ron Dennis wanted an efficient administrator to run the race team who would do what Ron told him and not make waves.  

I got the impression that he’d planned to put someone in between himself and Boullier (Ross Brawn’s name was mentioned), but it never came to anything.  As a result, Boullier found himself supervising three technical directors (chassis, engineering and aero) with no-one really responsible for the whole package.

DesVegas

Great lap from the man, even though it was blue flags for days

rlw

sweepy said:

If you think Boullier is bad, he’s not a patch on Cyril Abiteboul, the man is a buffoon of the highest order. I have an old dear friend who has been with the (now) Renault team since the Toleman days and has quite an insight into the fluctuating fortunes of an F1 team. As a manager, Boullier was actually very good, there were raw materials in the stores to build things and it wasn’t micro managed to within an inch of its life 

As a manager of things, I agree; as a manager of people, I think he was/is hopeless.

PC_Dave

Apparently McLaren have offered Ricciardo a contract worth £15m a year!!

Fretwired

PC_Dave said:

Apparently McLaren have offered Ricciardo a contract worth £15m a year!!

The money's good but the cars crap. Can't see Ricciardo signing in a hurry .. Hamilton's relationship with Mercedes is getting frayed. Looks like no engine upgrade for France which will seriously put him on the back foot for the rest of the season.

stickyfiddle

Ricciardo won’t go to McLaren unless Merc, Ferrari, RB and Renault all say no, which they won’t. 

It does suggest Fred won’t renew at McLaren though. 

I’d really like to see Ricciardo go to Merc or Ferrari and have Red Bull say “fuck it” and hire Alonso on a 1-year deal...

Fretwired

stickyfiddle said:

Ricciardo won’t go to McLaren unless Merc, Ferrari, RB and Renault all say no, which they won’t. 

It does suggest Fred won’t renew at McLaren though. 

I’d really like to see Ricciardo go to Merc or Ferrari and have Red Bull say “fuck it” and hire Alonso on a 1-year deal...

He won't go to Ferrari as  Vettel would block him (they had a few issues at Red Bull). Ferrari run a no 1 and a no 2 driver. I think Kimi may stay for another year as he works well with Vettel and doesn't complain or cause trouble.

Why might Riccardo go to McLaren? He'd be number one driver so the car would be built around him. At Red Bull Marko and co favour Vestappen as number one. McLaren have made some changes and I suspect there will be changes at the top. If Alonso goes the team will want another top driver. Riccardo and Norris would be a strong driver line-up. Experience plus Hamiltonesque fast British rookie.

The team needs to fix the car so they have to bin the two idiots in charge and get some guys who understand engineering, aero and how to build a car. That's what they'd need to convince Ricciardo about.

stickyfiddle

I did read mutterings that Newey might be tempted by one last move. That would be a reason to go to Mclaren or Renault - assuming it'd be one of those who hired him. 

Otherwise I just can't see Ricciardo wanting to take that kind of risk. While Max might be #1 in certain RB staff's eyes, Ricciardo has consistently beaten him over each season they've been together. But I'm assuming Dan is waiting for Hamilton to sign (or not!) before he makes a firm decision.

I can see Kimi staying another year. Clearly he's well liked by Vettel and team. It's just sooooo boring.

Cols

I think it’s just Marko stirring the pot.  

Driver salaries are a complex balance between how much the team needs the driver (in terms of skill and marketability) and how much the driver needs the team (in terms of providing him with a competitive car).  

Unless things change remarkably, McLaren aren’t going to be in a position to challenge for race wins any time soon.  They would need to offer him considerably more to risk whiling away the prime of his career scraping about for points.

Red Bull or Ferrari are still the most obvious choices.  Red Bull’s big problem is Verstappen’s salary; given that Ricciardo has more wins than him and has been consistently faster, he would want salary parity at least.

Fretwired

Cols said:

I think it’s just Marko stirring the pot.  

Driver salaries are a complex balance between how much the team needs the driver (in terms of skill and marketability) and how much the driver needs the team (in terms of providing him with a competitive car).  

Unless things change remarkably, McLaren aren’t going to be in a position to challenge for race wins any time soon.  They would need to offer him considerably more to risk whiling away the prime of his career scraping about for points.

Red Bull or Ferrari are still the most obvious choices.  Red Bull’s big problem is Verstappen’s salary; given that Ricciardo has more wins than him and has been consistently faster, he would want salary parity at least.

Vestappen's the future. In fairness he was had some bad luck but he is also reckless. If he calms down and channels his talent he'll be a world champion. I can't see Ricciardo being a world champion. Mercedes have dominated and now Ferrari look like they're up with the Mercs. Red Bull have taken a trip down the snake by swapping engine supplier so I doubt they'll be in contention next year. In fact with a two year deal I bet they're off to get a Cosworth/Aston Martin engine for when the regs change. Marko always wanted his own engine.

So Ricciardo has to decide if he sticks with Red Bull and goes through more turbulent times or takes a risk with McLaren. I think all the other top seats are taken.

sinbaadi

3-car teams would solve this problem!

Seriously it's just another sign that F1 isn't where racers should aspire to be.

Cols

sinbaadi said:

3-car teams would solve this problem!

Seriously it's just another sign that F1 isn't where racers should aspire to be.

3 car teams would kill off the independents.  All the points would be gobbled up by the big three.

sinbaadi

Cols said:

sinbaadi said:

3-car teams would solve this problem!

Seriously it's just another sign that F1 isn't where racers should aspire to be.

3 car teams would kill off the independents.  All the points would be gobbled up by the big three.

So 1 car teams then?  It's not a serious suggestion, but use your imagination.  20 cars, 10 points paying positions. 30 cars, 15 points paying positions?  

Cols

sinbaadi said:

Cols said:

sinbaadi said:

3-car teams would solve this problem!

Seriously it's just another sign that F1 isn't where racers should aspire to be.

3 car teams would kill off the independents.  All the points would be gobbled up by the big three.

So 1 car teams then?  It's not a serious suggestion, but use your imagination.  20 cars, 10 points paying positions. 30 cars, 15 points paying positions?  

There’s a cost associated with putting the cars onto the grid and a reasonably static amount of money to be distributed from the commercial rights holder.  Adding a third car increases overall costs without a commensurate increase in overall income. Additionally, teams are funded by sponsors who expect exposure.

Imagine, if you will, three car teams in Mercedes’s 2014-2016 peak.  Barring catastrophe, every podium would have been occupied by beaming Mercedes drivers.  Nice for Mercedes, not so much fun for the other teams.  

Now extend that three teams back to cover everything back to 9th place.  How many sponsors of the smaller teams would happily continue to shell out to see cars bearing their logo limp in 10th at best?

Having said that, I believe the grandee teams have a commitment to run a 3rd car in case a team folds and the grid falls under 20 cars.