The F1 thread

rocktron

I think we were deprived of a fascinating race after the Vettel-Bottas collision.

It would have been interesting if Vettel had managed to get past Bottas and put pressure on Hamilton, or even both Mercs. 

Unfortunately, we would never know. 

Vettel has now thrown away two races with a potential big haul of points, and that could wreck his championship bid.

Mad Max didn't have the speed, but it looks as if he has tempered his impetuosity.   

Modellista

Fretwired said:

modellista said:

Fretwired said:

 Check out the interview with Claire Williams

  I never said the interview was with Claire 

Fretwired

modellista said:

Fretwired said:

modellista said:

Fretwired said:

 Check out the interview with Claire Williams

  I never said the interview was with Claire 

The interview I wrote about was with Paddy Lowe. Claire was interviewed on Sky TV. All explained above ...

Paddy should know what he's talking about.

Garthy

You haven't got a clue.

stickyfiddle

rocktron said:

I think we were deprived of a fascinating race after the Vettel-Bottas collision.

It would have been interesting if Vettel had managed to get past Bottas and put pressure on Hamilton, or even both Mercs. 

Unfortunately, we would never know. 

Vettel has now thrown away two races with a potential big haul of points, and that could wreck his championship bid.

Mad Max didn't have the speed, but it looks as if he has tempered his impetuosity.   

It's interesting, because I'm not sure I would describe it as "throwing away", but more an artifact of the current regs. He started on the quicker tyre, and got a banzai run on Bottas, but got so close to Hamilton's back end that he had no grip to brake with, hence the lockup. Very similar to the Ricciardo/Verstappen thing earlier in the year.  Not that it wasn't his responsibility to anticipate that and back out earlier, at least a little bit.

Either way I can't wait for next year when they'll finally start trying to cut the dependence on clean air to go fast.

Garthy

https://www.racefans.net/2018/02/23/fia-tweaks-rules-to-make-engine-customers-more-competitive/

Modellista

Data from Q3 would indicate that Mercedes has an extra engine mode that's worth around two tenths of a second or more depending on the track.

I have crunched the numbers. 

Performance increase from Q2-Q3 over the 2018 season so far:

Mercedes 0.815%
Red Bull 0.759%
Ferrari 0.619%

Ricciardo has managed a bigger Q2-Q3 increase than Hamilton.  Yet you suggest Red Bull don't have a "party mode".

It's still not clear what you mean by "party mode".  Is it a secret, rule-breaking mode that no Mercedes customers have?  Or just a normal remap like the chav down the street has done to his Skoda and all the teams have?

We can see from the above that Mercedes are achieving a Q2-Q3 differential over Red Bull of 0.055%.  At France this equates to 0.05 of a second.  In Azerbaijan, the longest and one of the most power-dependent circuits, Ricciardo had a bigger percentage improvement Q2-Q3 than Hamilton, ditto Verstappen over Bottas.

I personally think all the teams have different engine modes, and there's nothing special about Mercedes in that respect.  Williams are crap at the moment so no conclusions can be drawn there.

Modellista

Fretwired said:

Paddy should know what he's talking about.

Fretwired said:

 he's an idiot.

stickyfiddle

modellista said:

Data from Q3 would indicate that Mercedes has an extra engine mode that's worth around two tenths of a second or more depending on the track.

I have crunched the numbers. 

Performance increase from Q2-Q3 over the 2018 season so far:

Mercedes 0.815%
Red Bull 0.759%
Ferrari 0.619%

Ricciardo has managed a bigger Q2-Q3 increase than Hamilton.  Yet you suggest Red Bull don't have a "party mode".

It's still not clear what you mean by "party mode".  Is it a secret, rule-breaking mode that no Mercedes customers have?  Or just a normal remap like the chav down the street has done to his Skoda and all the teams have?

We can see from the above that Mercedes are achieving a Q2-Q3 differential over Red Bull of 0.055%.  At France this equates to 0.05 of a second.  In Azerbaijan, the longest and one of the most power-dependent circuits, Ricciardo had a bigger percentage improvement Q2-Q3 than Hamilton, ditto Verstappen over Bottas.

I personally think all the teams have different engine modes, and there's nothing special about Mercedes in that respect.  Williams are crap at the moment so no conclusions can be drawn there.

All of this. 

Every engine (and therefore every team) has a bunch of different modes, ranging from "oh shit we don't have enough fuel" to "cane it for 2 laps in Q3 but ONLY 2 LAPS OR WE'LL EXPLODE", and a bunch in the middle. 

The backmarkers are all using the "cane it" mode in quali but they're all in shitboxes so it makes no odds. This is definitely the case for Williams and McLaren, who have exactly the same engines as Merc & Renault respectively but they've both employed a bunch of relative simpletones (in other words not spent $200m a year on a team of 300 blokes) so they have built shit cars and are at the back. You can't look at speed traps alone as that's a complex balance between outright power, downforce and drag.

Mercedes (and at this point also Ferrari and RB) have managed to find a way to generate huge amounts of downforce without drag, so they can still go quick on straights while also going quick round corners. Obviously this is less true for RB, since they're probably 20hp down with the Renault engine. But on most tracks, the balance of setup between downforce & drag is what separates the top 3 on laptime and speed traps. It just isn't enough to tell who is trying to cheat the rules with extra modes. 

Last year's McHonda had shitloads of downforce because they knew they were down on power so they were trying to make up wherever they could in the twistys. I suspect that is why they thought they had such a great chassis, but they didn't realise just how much more downforce & drag they were carrying compared with the other teams.

Honestly, I'd like to see them return to the days where the driver had a wheel and paddles and a radio button and *everything* else had to either be done automatically by the car, or changed during pitstops, or not changed at all during a race. But we all know that's a pipedream

Fretwired

modellista said:

Fretwired said:

Paddy should know what he's talking about.

Fretwired said:

 he's an idiot.

Not mutually exclusive. I did say 'should' and yes he's an idiot .. :-)

Fretwired

modellista said:

Data from Q3 would indicate that Mercedes has an extra engine mode that's worth around two tenths of a second or more depending on the track.

I have crunched the numbers. 

Performance increase from Q2-Q3 over the 2018 season so far:

Mercedes 0.815%
Red Bull 0.759%
Ferrari 0.619%

Ricciardo has managed a bigger Q2-Q3 increase than Hamilton.  Yet you suggest Red Bull don't have a "party mode".

It's still not clear what you mean by "party mode".  Is it a secret, rule-breaking mode that no Mercedes customers have?  Or just a normal remap like the chav down the street has done to his Skoda and all the teams have?

We can see from the above that Mercedes are achieving a Q2-Q3 differential over Red Bull of 0.055%.  At France this equates to 0.05 of a second.  In Azerbaijan, the longest and one of the most power-dependent circuits, Ricciardo had a bigger percentage improvement Q2-Q3 than Hamilton, ditto Verstappen over Bottas.

I personally think all the teams have different engine modes, and there's nothing special about Mercedes in that respect.  Williams are crap at the moment so no conclusions can be drawn there.

Believe what you like. Lowe says he doesn't have one; Wolff says he has one. Horner says he doesn't have one and wants them banned. Maybe they're all playing a game.

Your stats are meaningless. The one thing I do agree with Lowe about is the driver. Hamilton's stellar lap in Melbourne wasn't just being in 'party mode' - he hooked up the lap. Ricciardo is a fast driver - you have to factor in the adrenaline rush and pressure in Q3. Maybe Ricciardo is a better one lap driver than Hamilton. Top drivers will perform when it counts. Red Bull are sometimes conservative in Q2 or opt for a different strategy from Mercedes. Too many variables.

Red Bull also have the best car on track. With a Mercedes engine they'd wipe the floor with everyone.

thumpingrug

Im beginning to wonder how many more pages this ridiculous handbags at dawn squabble can go on.  

sinbaadi

Merc turn it down for practice and Q1/Q2, and the race mostly.  Other Merc teams don't have that luxury.

That makes more sense than turning up to eleven doesn't it?

PC_Dave

thumpingrug said:

Im beginning to wonder how many more pages this ridiculous handbags at dawn squabble can go on.  

Amen sister 

stickyfiddle

Porsche just released footage of its Nurburgring run in the 919 Evo. 

5’19”...

The previous record was a 6’11” set by a Porsche 956

https://youtu.be/PQmSUHhP3ug

simonk

stickyfiddle said:

Porsche just released footage of its Nurburgring run in the 919 Evo. 

5’19”...

The previous record was a 6’11” set by a Porsche 956

https://youtu.be/PQmSUHhP3ug

Christ! That’s insane!

Garthy

I wish they had taken it to IoM just to shut the bikers up. 

Heartfeltdawn

And still people talk of F1 being the pinnacle of motorsport technology... pah. 

Garthy

Heartfeltdawn said:

And still people talk of F1 being the pinnacle of motorsport technology... pah. 

It is, the 919 Evo doesn't conform to any rulebook.

Heartfeltdawn

Garthy said:

Heartfeltdawn said:

And still people talk of F1 being the pinnacle of motorsport technology... pah. 

It is, the 919 Evo doesn't conform to any rulebook.

I know. Rulebooks work if they're done well. If they aren't, things can be rather dull.