PRS and Gibson are arguing Trademarks again...

Philly_Q

Offset said:

S56035 said:

Shame there is no snooze or bored emojis on the forum.

Indeed.  I would like to petition the tFB Overlords for a "Don't Give A Fuck" emoji.

We might as well go the whole hog and have emojis for:

• Today's prices are outrageous
• Grrrr!  I hate flippers
• I love/hate relics
• I do/don't believe in tonewoods
• I've never heard of him/her/it/them
• I've read that name and now I'm going to go off on one (to be used whever E Clapton, P Townshend or J Page is mentioned)
• I use red Jazz IIIs

Nobody would ever have to type anything again (except in Off Topic and Politics Economics).

stonevibe

fretmeister said:

stonevibe said:

I just think they waste so much time and money over this rubbish 

Irony Alert!

Why on earth did you write your blog about it then?

elstoof said:

Companies employ lawyers to protect their business 24 hours a day, none of them issued a statement about this. The only reason we’re aware is because some bored journo with nothing better to write about needed “news” for clicks

It's the OP's own site. He is the journo.

He posted it here for the clicks.

The site is a news site/blog about Guitar news, so I write news. That doesn't mean I'm personally impressed by two Guitar brands fighting in court over trademarks. I feel they are wasting time and money. Still news though.

Offset

^^ I think @fretmeister fell out of the wrong side of the bed this morning 

Offset

Philly_Q said:

Nobody would ever have to type anything again (except in Off Topic and Politics Economics).

Nirvana!

matt_sefton

Funkfingers said:

PRS should just up and wait until the Theodore dies of natural causes.

In some respects, the Theodore body shape reminds me of pre-existing designs from other companies. With a bit of sculpting, it might resemble the Tokai Talbo from the Eighties. 

Tokai Talbo was the first thing I thought of when I saw it. Either way it’s horrendous 

prlgmnr

fretmeister said:

It's the OP's own site. He is the journo.

He posted it here for the clicks.

if everyone forms an orderly queue I shall hand out flaming torches and pitchforks

guitargeek62

Philly_Q said:

Honestly, what absolute bullshit.

Nobody other than a guitar geek would make any connection between the names "Theodore" and "McCarty"... and there's no danger whatsoever of said guitar geek confusing the two.

And as for "Silver Sky Nebula" clashing or being confused with "Silverburst"... just fuck off.

Rude…

Philly_Q

guitargeek62 said:

Philly_Q said:

Honestly, what absolute bullshit.

Nobody other than a guitar geek would make any connection between the names "Theodore" and "McCarty"... and there's no danger whatsoever of said guitar geek confusing the two.

And as for "Silver Sky Nebula" clashing or being confused with "Silverburst"... just fuck off.

Rude…

The rudeness was entirely aimed and Gibson (and, sad to say, PRS), not at guitar geeks.  I'd be proud to number myself among the guitar geeks.

Whitecat

Philly_Q said:

guitargeek62 said:

Philly_Q said:

Honestly, what absolute bullshit.

Nobody other than a guitar geek would make any connection between the names "Theodore" and "McCarty"... and there's no danger whatsoever of said guitar geek confusing the two.

And as for "Silver Sky Nebula" clashing or being confused with "Silverburst"... just fuck off.

Rude…

The rudeness was entirely aimed and Gibson (and, sad to say, PRS), not at guitar geeks.  I'd be proud to number myself among the guitar geeks.

I think he was marking a joke about his username

Philly_Q

Whitecat said:

Philly_Q said:

guitargeek62 said:

Philly_Q said:

Honestly, what absolute bullshit.

Nobody other than a guitar geek would make any connection between the names "Theodore" and "McCarty"... and there's no danger whatsoever of said guitar geek confusing the two.

And as for "Silver Sky Nebula" clashing or being confused with "Silverburst"... just fuck off.

Rude…

The rudeness was entirely aimed and Gibson (and, sad to say, PRS), not at guitar geeks.  I'd be proud to number myself among the guitar geeks.

I think he was marking a joke about his username

Hence my reference to guitar geeks.

Haych

I'm convinced some lawsuits are just a way of dragging media attention to a brand.  Apple and Samsung do it quite regularly and then both the brands hit mainstream news for a couple of days.

Would be surprised if Paul Smith & James Curleigh drink at the same bar and after a couple of rounds hatch a plan to sue the crap out of one another for shits, giggles and clicks.

  PS: "Hey, you should launch that ugly-ass Ted McCarty design".
  JC: "No way man, it's fugly, nobody would buy it".
  PS: "Tell you what, you build it, I'll sue, that should raise enough attention, it'll walk out the door".
  JC: "Sure, and I'll counter-sue....... shit, what for though?"
  PS: "Man, good question..... what have I done since 1985 that you haven't sued me for yet?"
  JC: "Got it!  How about I concoct some issue about your Silver Sky thing? We had the Silverburst thing going on first."
  PS: "Hmm, that's tenuous, but it just might work."
  JC: "Great stuff, I'll call my lawyers, you get another round in.  Same again please, buddy."

Edit: I might be a bit out of date with who the current Gibbo CEO is this week ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

nacnudnai

Offset said:

^^ I think @fretmeister fell out of the wrong side of the bed this morning 

Nah, he's just giving a logical response - which I admit does seem out of place in this thread 

Jeremiah

The silverburst thing makes no sense - loads of other companies use "silverburst" as a name for the colour, including Fender, e.g.

https://www.fender.com/en-GB/electric-guitars/other/player-plus-meteora-hh/0147352391.html

So how does it make any sense for Gibson to be suing PRS for not actually using "silverburst" but something else?

Musical_Mystery_Tour

Philly_Q said:

And as for "Silver Sky Nebula" clashing or being confused with "Silverburst"... just fuck off.

I dunno, the amount of people I know who've gone out to buy a 1965 Fender Mustang and accidentally come home with a 1965 Ford Mustang because of the name similarity confusing them, lends a good deal of credence to their argument.

richardhomer

PRS used Ted McCarty to connect his brand with Gibson’s ‘Golden Age’. To somehow think that prevents Gibson’s (no pun intended) historic connection with McCarty ever being referred to seems arrogant in the extreme.

Perhaps 20 years on, PRS has deep enough pockets to avenge the Singlecut lawsuit. All a bit disappointing, really…

Chimpankie

stickyfiddle said:

BeardyAndy said:

Got to laugh at the irony of Gibson claiming against PRS for the name of a finish used on a guitar that is blatant copy of a Stratocaster, while Fender just has to sit there and watch it be the biggest selling guitar on Reverb for 2 years straight!

Sure, but PRS only makes 2 Silver Skies, while Fender makes 1,462,845,009 different flavours of Strat. 

Yeah every Silver Sky is counted as the same model, I’m pretty sure if you added up all the Fender Strats they’d have sold a multiple more.

It’s like when PRS said the NF53 was their best selling guitar of 2023 but it was based on dealer orders and dealer orders for a new model will always be higher than a model they already have in stock…

On the lawsuit, the PRS side is tenuous but if the McCarty estate don’t want the association then I think that makes the action more justifiable.

ICBM

Chimpankie said:

Yeah every Silver Sky is counted as the same model, I’m pretty sure if you added up all the Fender Strats they’d have sold a multiple more.

This. There’s not even the remotest possibility that the Silver Sky has actually outsold all Fender Strats, even if you don’t count Squiers.

Offset

@Chimpankie ;

On the lawsuit, the PRS side is tenuous but if the McCarty estate don’t want the association then I think that makes the action more justifiable.

I'm trying to think of why the McCarty estate don't want the association - after all, he ran the bloody company!

And unless you're Elvis or Christ, what's in a first name?!

It's all nonsense.

stonevibe

Well, The Fretboard doesn't add many clicks to the site in all fairness. However, I like to read the reactions from a dedicated bunch of guitar enthusiasts from the UK. Because, you lot (including myself) have some valid opinions, which often shape what I write about next, and sometimes I will re-edit the article having seen your initial reactions.

You all work well as a 'gauge' for how to write and make content for a news site. Whereas, other forums I belong to are way more 'American' and have very different reactions.

Most of the site traffic comes from Google (around 40-60%, then, various other search engine traffic,  next up is normally direct from Facebook/Instagram, then US forums like TGP, etc 

Mainly because traffic for Guitar News is very US-focused in terms of who searches for it. This is the same for every site I write for about guitars and music gear in general.

I value all your input and opinions, so I often share news articles here about new stuff or stupid legal cases. Though, I'm more than happy not to share any more stuff here (if it annoys you all).

Either way, cheers for your opinions on this latest PRS/Gibson case, as it pretty much aligns with my thoughts on the whole debacle.

Litterick

Offset said:

@Chimpankie ;

On the lawsuit, the PRS side is tenuous but if the McCarty estate don’t want the association then I think that makes the action more justifiable.

I'm trying to think of why the McCarty estate don't want the association - after all, he ran the bloody company!

And unless you're Elvis or Christ, what's in a first name?!

It's all nonsense.

The McCarty estate and PRS are concerned about confusion:

'Petitioners, Paul Reed Smith Guitars (“Petitioner PRS”) and the Estate of Theodore M. McCarty (“Petitioner Estate”), seek to cancel trademark registration No. 6783631 for the mark THEODORE in standard characters for “stringed musical instruments,” owned by Respondent, Gibson Brands, Inc. As grounds for cancellation, Petitioner PRS alleges a claim of likelihood of confusion under Trademark Act Section 2(d), 15 U.S.C. § 1052(d), and Petitioner Estate alleges a claim of false suggestion of a connection under Trademark Act Section 2(a), 15 U.S.C. § 1052(a). In support of those claims, Petitioners rely, in part, on Petitioner PRS’s trademark registration of the mark MCCARTY in typeset letters for “musical instruments, namely guitars,” and allege, inter alia, that Theodore McCarty assigned to Petitioner PRS an exclusive license for use and registration of the name McCarty as a trademark and the right of publicity of his persona.

Although Respondent admits “its THEODORE guitar is based upon or inspired by Ted McCarty’s original blueprints for a never-before-made guitar, which were found in Gibson’s archives and dated 18 March 1957,” and “its THEODORE guitar is named after Ted McCarty,” Respondent otherwise denies the salient allegations set forth in the First Amended Petition for Cancellation.'

TL;DR: The First Amended Petition prays that Gibson's trademark for THEODORE be cancelled because the name is associated with Ted McCarty in the guitar industry, the guitar is named after him, Gibson promotes the association between McCarty and the guitar, Gibson does not have the right to use the association with McCarty, consumers will recognise the association, consumers are likely to mistakenly believe Theodore guitars are associated with PRS and the McCarty Estate, so Registrant's use of the Theodore mark creates a likelihood of confusion.