NMD - Should I upgrade to a Shure Beta 87a? - obviously not.

BenSirAmos

I'm a pretty experienced singer and usually the loudest voice in the room so I don't really have problems with feedback. But recently we've been developing songs where I can display my deep low threatening whisper as sell as my usual wounded elephant bellow and I'd like my whisper to cut through the mix - I'll probably need more gain. I currently use a Beta 58a which I've been happy with but I think the Beta 87a should be an upgrade - but they are not that common and I haven't heard one in a live performance.  Anyone got any experience with the 87a? Any better options? Maybe @maltingsaudio?

I'm the only guitarist in the band so I never go wandering off holding the mic - it stays in the stand. We are only playing pubs and small venues and we don't have a sound engineer to ride the faders. I need a mic I can work to get the best out of my performance.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X0XOZ5OFarE

Danny1969

It’s what else will be going into the mic that you need to consider in a live environment. Especially in pubs when the singer is stood right in front of the drums because there can be as much drums in the vocal mic as there is vocal. 

On bigger stages you can have more choices as you can get further away from the drums and backline. 

BenSirAmos

Danny1969 said:

It’s what else will be going into the mic that you need to consider in a live environment. Especially in pubs when the singer is stood right in front of the drums because there can be as much drums in the vocal mic as there is vocal. 

On bigger stages you can have more choices as you can get further away from the drums and backline. 

When I'm singing. I'll be shielding the mic from the drums and, when I'm not singing, I won't care if it picks up the drums. But thanks for the tip - I'll make sure I place it in front of my guitar amp so when I'm not singing my guitar gets a boost. We are only a three piece so there isn't anyone else to worry about. 

maltingsaudio

The good news is your in London, there will be plenty of places you can hire one to try in a live situation. I would have thought the 87 a being more biased towards the mid and highs is going to cause more problems than it solves on small tight stages.

My first thought on reading your thread was try an Audix om7 https://audixusa.com/products/om7/

BenSirAmos

maltingsaudio said:

The good news is your in London, there will be plenty of places you can hire one to try in a live situation. I would have thought the 87 a being more biased towards the mid and highs is going to cause more problems than it solves on small tight stages.

My first thought on reading your thread was try an Audix om7 https://audixusa.com/products/om7/

Thanks for that. I'm now in a bit of a quandary because there are a couple of things that put me off the OM7. 

Given how much I've spent on guitars and how little I've spent on mics, I think I should treat myself to both and give them both a proper testing. 

PhilKing

I've had a lot of success with the SE V7.  It's got a good sound and doesn't feedback easily.  They do it with a switch as well, it you need that.  We have a sound guy, so I got the basic one.

BenSirAmos

PhilKing said:

I've had a lot of success with the SE V7.  It's got a good sound and doesn't feedback easily.  They do it with a switch as well, it you need that.  We have a sound guy, so I got the basic one.

I'm not sure that it will take me beyond the beta58a - but I'll add it to the list to try. Thanks for the suggestion - at least it won't break the bank. 

shufflebeat

Love the sE v7 but for deep textured voices I love the Audix om7 more.

It doesn’t like you to wander any more than an inch or so away but once you get used to it there’s not much like it.

Senn e935 is my own mic of choice and I like a full sound but it’s more natural than characterful and may be a bit bloaty in this scenario.

Musicwolf

Another vote for Sennheiser.  I use an e845, which is classed as 'Super Cardioid'.  Excellent feedback rejection.

Danny1969

I've just watched the video. Your vocals are cool but it's not the mic causing any problems,  it's the lack of EQ, compression and verb / delay treatment. I don't know what you are using but it sounds like the mic is just plugged into a cheap desk with nothing done to it at all. 

I would first sort these aspects out then think about another mic. 

BenSirAmos

Danny1969 said:

I've just watched the video. Your vocals are cool but it's not the mic causing any problems,  it's the lack of EQ, compression and verb / delay treatment. I don't know what you are using but it sounds like the mic is just plugged into a cheap desk with nothing done to it at all. 

I would first sort these aspects out then think about another mic. 

Yeah but this is plug'n'play - it's the house pa. If we were using our own gear and had someone on the desk we might be able to do something more but for now I just want to control the quality of the input. I'll try an Audix OM7 and see if it makes life easier. If not I'll try the Shure or maybe a Sennheiser - but I'm interested in what a low output mic will do. After all, I like lower output pickups

mrkb

Look at a voicelive touch or similar and add your own eq and reverb before going into the desk.

shufflebeat

BenSirAmos said:

I'll try an Audix OM7 and see if it makes life easier. If not I'll try the Shure or maybe a Sennheiser - but I'm interested in what a low output mic will do. After all, I like lower output pickups

You should be aware - pretty much the only consequence of the om7 being “low output” is that you’ll heave up the input gain a bit to get a usable signal - but this isn’t a problem.

The beauty if it is it’s ability to capture a big, chesty voice and its polar pattern, which is quite laser-like in the top end, making it easier to avoid feedback but be careful not to say anything disparaging about anyone in the front row, even when you’re a distance from the mic.

I don’t completely disagree with Danny, though. There is other work to do on that vocal but my first impression was that the system sounds underpowered for what you’re asking of it, or possibly just needs turning up so you’re filling the room from well within your vocal comfort zone.

However, stil the Audix

BenSirAmos

shufflebeat said:

BenSirAmos said:

I'll try an Audix OM7 and see if it makes life easier. If not I'll try the Shure or maybe a Sennheiser - but I'm interested in what a low output mic will do. After all, I like lower output pickups

You should be aware - pretty much the only consequence of the om7 being “low output” is that you’ll heave up the input gain a bit to get a usable signal - but this isn’t a problem.

The beauty if it is it’s ability to capture a big, chesty voice and its polar pattern, which is quite laser-like in the top end, making it easier to avoid feedback but be careful not to say anything disparaging about anyone in the front row, even when you’re a distance from the mic.

That's our whole stage act, voicing disparaging remarks.

shufflebeat

Well, it worked for Groucho Marx, and he was a terrible singer.

John_P

My go to mic's are the sennheiser 935 and 945 - the 945 is a tighter pattern that works better if the singer is going to stay on the mic.   They sound very detailed for a dynamic. 

BenSirAmos

mrkb said:

Look at a voicelive touch or similar and add your own eq and reverb before going into the desk.

John_P said:

My go to mic's are the sennheiser 935 and 945 - the 945 is a tighter pattern that works better if the singer is going to stay on the mic.   They sound very detailed for a dynamic. 

I've got access to the mixer - but I can't make adjustments on the fly whether it's adjustments to a preamp at my feet or on the mixer.

I'll give the Sennheisers a try if the Audix doesn't give me a step up from the Beta58a - but at the moment I can't imagine much improvement. A low output option though - well that's different. 

BenSirAmos

shufflebeat said:

Well, it worked for Groucho Marx, and he was a terrible singer.

Me and Groucho might have more in common than I thought

BenSirAmos

New mic bought: I've gone for the Audix OM7 (thanks  @maltingsaudio).

It's not immediately obvious that it is a step up from the Beta58 - but the increased proximity effect does mean that I can work the mic more, getting very close (and much louder) for the quiet singing and backing off a little for my full throttle vocals. And I'm told it is much less noisy than my usual mics even though the gain is whacked right up - not that I can notice. No gigs for a couple of weeks but I'll try to get the same song on video for comparison the next time we are at the same venue.

Thanks to everyone for the replies. 

maltingsaudio

BenSirAmos said:

New mic bought: I've gone for the Audix OM7 (thanks  @maltingsaudio).

It's not immediately obvious that it is a step up from the Beta58 - but the increased proximity effect does mean that I can work the mic more, getting very close (and much louder) for the quiet singing and backing off a little for my full throttle vocals. And I'm told it is much less noisy than my usual mics even though the gain is whacked right up - not that I can notice. No gigs for a couple of weeks but I'll try to get the same song on video for comparison the next time we are at the same venue.

Thanks to everyone for the replies. 

Enjoy, you’ll like the more you get used to it 

BenSirAmos

Only a short clip of the same song at the same venue using the same gear - except this time I'm using an Audix OM7 in this clip rather than the Shure Beta58 I'm using in the previous version. I think the Audix is a hell of a lot clearer and more natural than the Shure so it really is a step up. Thanks to everyone for the advice

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-QoycV4piQo