London yoofs

robgilmo

Guys, in all fairness, kids get on bus, start messing around, call the police?
Kids will mess around, especially at that age, I am sure most of us did, best thing is just ignore them, unless they actually do or say something threatening.
And remember, todays yoofs, if it all goes to shit will be tomorrows wolverines.



Edit, oooh, might watch that tonight in fact, havent watched it in decades! The Swayze express is just pulling up.

Emp_Fab

A couple of you are missing the point somewhat.  It wasn't about the kids play-fighting or being boisterous or noisy on the train.  That was just context.  It was the 'alpha' male that challenged me with his facial expression and his body language.  It was clear he, at 15 or whatever he was, felt he deserved my respect and that I should move out of his way.

Trust me, there was no misinterpretation of his statement.  He saw a grey-haired old man and enjoyed intimidating me.  I doubt very much he would have even wanted to sit there if I'd been younger and looked like I could flatten him.

ewal

And don't blame it all on the parents. Peer influence rapidly exerts a much greater influence through the teenage years. Just your good/bad luck who your kids end up hanging about with. You can't keep them locked up and you can't instruct them who to be friends with.

robgilmo

ewal said:

And don't blame it all on the parents. Peer influence rapidly exerts a much greater influence through the teenage years. Just your good/bad luck who your kids end up hanging about with. You can't keep them locked up and you can't instruct them who to be friends with.

Blame is a very strong word and one not really fitting in this instance, responsible perhaps. You cannot engineer a child, but you can shepherd them.
I think gentle parenting rather than hellicopter or forceful parenting can produce better results, teaching a child doesnt have to be 'telling' a child. When you start 'telling' a child it wont be long before they start 'telling' you back.
What parents have to understand is we cannot 'control' or 'mould' our children into something we want them to be, rather we have to guide when we can towards an outcome that is beneficial to them in both present and future..

ToneControl

ewal said:

And don't blame it all on the parents. Peer influence rapidly exerts a much greater influence through the teenage years. Just your good/bad luck who your kids end up hanging about with. You can't keep them locked up and you can't instruct them who to be friends with.

and, AFAIK, is why parents with enough cash, often spend it on "social engineering" to try to constrain the social circle of their kids. e.g. private schools, posher areas.

I've certainly done that to some extent - to get a less-risky environment and better schools, we moved out from the big city once we had kids, and sent them to a good local comprehensive. But of course, most people can't (or don't want) to move.  I say that second point because houses out of the city were and still are cheaper than in Manchester, so it's definitely not only an option for the better-off.  I often wonder why more people don't move out of London. The stereotype is that everyone in London thinks that the rest if the country is deprived and awful.

ewal

Yes I know that. So best not to assume and conclude your anecdote with "because of the fact that these feral twats exist and their parents clearly either don't exist or don't give a fuck."

Their parents may well very much give a fuck. They could be sitting at home in a state of high anxiety hoping their kids are safe. That's sometimes how it is.

LionAquaLooper

Emp_Fab said:

A couple of you are missing the point somewhat.  It wasn't about the kids play-fighting or being boisterous or noisy on the train.  That was just context.  It was the 'alpha' male that challenged me with his facial expression and his body language.  It was clear he, at 15 or whatever he was, felt he deserved my respect and that I should move out of his way.

Sorry but this bit is definitely nothing new lol. Especially here in Europe and the US. This problem you had isn't localised to London either. You're not in Asia  where it's ingrained in kids to respect elders without question (and they actually do). This incident of intimidation could've very easily happened to you at your local pub, supermarket or bus stop and you know it. 

robgilmo

LionAquaLooper said:

Emp_Fab said:

A couple of you are missing the point somewhat.  It wasn't about the kids play-fighting or being boisterous or noisy on the train.  That was just context.  It was the 'alpha' male that challenged me with his facial expression and his body language.  It was clear he, at 15 or whatever he was, felt he deserved my respect and that I should move out of his way.

Sorry but this bit is definitely nothing new lol. Especially here in Europe and the US. This problem you had isn't localised to London either. You're not in Asia  where it's ingrained in kids to respect elders without question (and they actually do). This incident of intimidation could've very easily happened to you at your local pub, supermarket or bus stop and you know it. 

Or, maybe the kid wanted to sit down and thought, whats this old guyt doing taking up two seats? Everyone 'deserves' everyones respect regardless.

Kurtis

robgilmo said:

ewal said:

And don't blame it all on the parents. Peer influence rapidly exerts a much greater influence through the teenage years. Just your good/bad luck who your kids end up hanging about with. You can't keep them locked up and you can't instruct them who to be friends with.

Blame is a very strong word and one not really fitting in this instance, responsible perhaps. You cannot engineer a child, but you can shepherd them.
I think gentle parenting rather than hellicopter or forceful parenting can produce better results, teaching a child doesnt have to be 'telling' a child. When you start 'telling' a child it wont be long before they start 'telling' you back.
What parents have to understand is we cannot 'control' or 'mould' our children into something we want them to be, rather we have to guide when we can towards an outcome that is beneficial to them in both present and future..

Don't responsible it all on the parents?

Musical_Mystery_Tour

Emp_Fab said:

Trust me, there was no misinterpretation of his statement.  He saw a grey-haired old man and enjoyed intimidating me.  I doubt very much he would have even wanted to sit there if I'd been younger and looked like I could flatten him.

To be perfectly honest, thinking that someone's appearance, or age, means they can't flatten him is almost certainly going to end up being a very big, and possibly the last mistake he'll ever make. But, that doesn't help you to know that, so...

If you are likely to feel like such intimidation might occur regularly,  you really ought to consider some self-defence training/martial arts stuff. Having got that myself, I can tell you that knowing you are able to 'handle yourself' tends to make you exude an air of confidence which most of the time means you'll never actually get to the point where you even have to use what you know. People can sense that you know you can take them out if you have to, because you don't give off any signals that you are intimidated when you know you stand a pretty good chance of knocking seven shades of shit out of them.

Now having said that, you are absolutely right to consider the potential for someone having a knife, because they are easily available, can mean unpredictable attacks, and can actually do a lot more damage than a pistol, and that damage can be fatal. The main difficulty in defending against them, is the potential for a large slashing wound to your forearm, which is something that can easily be life-changing regardless of any other slashes or stabs which might follow up such an injury in a repeated attack. Such an injury would certainly end your guitar playing. So in most cases, discretion is probably the better part of valour. and even if you do get threatened with a knife, you are probably best off handing over your wallet or phone; no amount of cash or phone is worth dying for. But if you do have to defend against a knife because you don't have any choice in the matter, a good tactic is an improvised weapon of your own with which you can parry an attack, such as a briefcase, laptptop or similar, then you can deliver your own disabling follow up blow with it (the  throat is a good target to aim for). However, it helps if you have had some martial arts or self-defence training if you you have to try that. As I say, handing over your valuables, walking or running away is a better option if you are not fairly certain that any defence you put up is going to work, and there is no shame in doing that when you think about the potential alternative, but it is as well to be aware that making an exit might not be an option, and should that be the case, what would you do?

Now you might not like the idea of going to some karate school and getting chucked about all over the shop, so a good option would be to do some Tai Chi. And by Tai Chi, I don't mean some new age hippy or wannabe ninja dipshit who thinks they know what they are doing and has set up his own crappy classes, I mean at a proper Chinese MA centre, with an instructor who has been doing it for years and knows what it is really about. The reason I'm suggesting Tai Chi, is because it is a very gentle and (initially) entirely non-contact way to learn self defence in the form of what is also some good exercise, so you don't have to worry about getting chucked about and battered by some ten year old lol and it will if nothing else, improve your fitness. There will be somewhere in most towns where you can do it, and it's not expensive, nor do you need to dress up like Bruce Lee, a t shirt, some pumps and tracksuit bottoms is all you need.

A lot of people have a completely incorrect impression of what Tai Chi is: You may have seen people going through their Tai Chi forms, and not really realised the purpose of that; the real purpose of all those moves, and their regular practice, is to turn those movements into smooth muscle memory, because what all those flowing moves actually are, is blocks against attacks perfected in slow motion whilst maintaining good balance so you don't get knocked down, and this to facilitate the opening up of your opponents front, so you can deliver a follow-up strike, which through constantly doing those form routines, becomes something you can instantly recall and use without having to think about it in a stressful situation.

It's not dissimilar to how guitar practice makes playing something which occurs almost on autopilot, without having to think. So although it looks quite balletic when you see someone going through the forms (and indeed it kind of is), what it does, is make you really good at blocking attacks and staying on your feet, so you can then deliver a finishing counter-attack rather than a prolonged brawl, put the person down quickly, and then either restrain them, or if you prefer, run off whilst they are still down.

You might also be interested to know that although lots of people think that inner chi is something which is just 'mystical bullshit', I can tell you from personal experience that it really isn't; it genuinely is something which allows you to 'wind up' and then explode with a really devastating single blow to someone, which is definitely going to put them down for the duration of a fight and quite possibly hospitalise them, allowing you to make an exit. So aside from all the other valuable stuff doing some tai chi offers in terms of health benefits and confidence and the social aspect of getting out and doing it with a regular bunch of people; if you have any interest in the 'mystical' aspect of such things, it's quite an eye-opener which will surprise you. Trust me, not all of that stuff you see in kung fu movies is bullshit.

Give it a go; I bet you'll like it.

Kurtis

Alright steven seagal. 

Musical_Mystery_Tour

Go ahead and take the piss if you like, I'm sure a witty put down will really help you if someone comes at you, but I can promise you, it has prevented me from getting battered on more than one occasion, and I'm the kind of person who prefers to walk away. So before you dismiss it, think about what you would do if someone came up to you in a sparsely populated train carriage when the next stop is fifteen minutes away, because I can assure you the ticket collector or that bloke who is asleep ten seats away from you are not going to come and help you.

robgilmo

Kurtis said:

Alright steven seagal. 

Dont Chuck Norris it all on the parents..

Emp_Fab

robgilmo said:

LionAquaLooper said:

Emp_Fab said:

A couple of you are missing the point somewhat.  It wasn't about the kids play-fighting or being boisterous or noisy on the train.  That was just context.  It was the 'alpha' male that challenged me with his facial expression and his body language.  It was clear he, at 15 or whatever he was, felt he deserved my respect and that I should move out of his way.

Sorry but this bit is definitely nothing new lol. Especially here in Europe and the US. This problem you had isn't localised to London either. You're not in Asia  where it's ingrained in kids to respect elders without question (and they actually do). This incident of intimidation could've very easily happened to you at your local pub, supermarket or bus stop and you know it. 

Or, maybe the kid wanted to sit down and thought, whats this old guyt doing taking up two seats? Everyone 'deserves' everyones respect regardless.

No.  Hell no.

Everyone should show courtesy to others.  Respect is earned.

WezV

Emp_Fab said:

robgilmo said:

LionAquaLooper said:

Emp_Fab said:

A couple of you are missing the point somewhat.  It wasn't about the kids play-fighting or being boisterous or noisy on the train.  That was just context.  It was the 'alpha' male that challenged me with his facial expression and his body language.  It was clear he, at 15 or whatever he was, felt he deserved my respect and that I should move out of his way.

Sorry but this bit is definitely nothing new lol. Especially here in Europe and the US. This problem you had isn't localised to London either. You're not in Asia  where it's ingrained in kids to respect elders without question (and they actually do). This incident of intimidation could've very easily happened to you at your local pub, supermarket or bus stop and you know it. 

Or, maybe the kid wanted to sit down and thought, whats this old guyt doing taking up two seats? Everyone 'deserves' everyones respect regardless.

No.  Hell no.

Everyone should show courtesy to others.  Respect is earned.

Then show curtesy by not taking 2 seats in a wide legged "alpha male" stance.

LionAquaLooper

Emp_Fab said:

robgilmo said:

LionAquaLooper said:

Emp_Fab said:

A couple of you are missing the point somewhat.  It wasn't about the kids play-fighting or being boisterous or noisy on the train.  That was just context.  It was the 'alpha' male that challenged me with his facial expression and his body language.  It was clear he, at 15 or whatever he was, felt he deserved my respect and that I should move out of his way.

Sorry but this bit is definitely nothing new lol. Especially here in Europe and the US. This problem you had isn't localised to London either. You're not in Asia  where it's ingrained in kids to respect elders without question (and they actually do). This incident of intimidation could've very easily happened to you at your local pub, supermarket or bus stop and you know it. 

Or, maybe the kid wanted to sit down and thought, whats this old guyt doing taking up two seats? Everyone 'deserves' everyones respect regardless.

No.  Hell no.

Everyone should show courtesy to others.  Respect is earned.

Double standards though. You automatically assumed they should respect you right off the bat. 

Emp_Fab

Oh here we go.....  How did I "assume they should respect me right off the bat" ?  What part of my story had you come to that conclusion?

euan

Playing the man not the ball here

Sporky

Maybe he fancied you. The feats of strength might have been part of a mating ritual. 

Emp_Fab

Sporky said:

Maybe he fancied you. The feats of strength might have been part of a mating ritual. 

Mmmm....  Unlikely.  Fat, grey-haired old white men with glasses tend not to be lusted after by young black teenagers.  At least I've never been chatted up by one.