Jacob Collier approach to guitar

Zoolooter

Very bland/pedestrian songs. Talent is only a starting point…….

thecolourbox

english_bob said:

thecolourbox said:

I'd say he's all of them to be fair. Astonishing musician, for those who say theyve not heard anything that moves them I find it hard to believe that over 5 massive ranging albums you've found nothing? The guy is a genius, his work has some spectacular moments. He's not anti establishment nor trying for chart success he just makes wildly varied music with incredible harmony and chord progressions and so much detail and layers.

I don't know about you, but my immediate response to hearing music I don't particularly enjoy isn't to listen to all the music that artist has ever produced just to make sure.

There's 32 Barry Manilow studio albums. Do I have to listen to every one before I'm allowed to say I don't like his music? Just once, or do I have give them all a couple of plays to see if there's any growers?

I get that he's passionate (Jacob Collier this is, not Barry Manilow, although I'm sure he's passionate too), and hugely knowledgeable and blessed with a huge talent for understanding music. I find his enthusiasm and passion inspiring. I think his facility with music is testament to the benefits of knowing the mechanics and theory behind it, and I'd much rather a world with Jacob Collier in it than one without, I just don't enjoy his music.

Yeah I get that and I get what PhillyQ is saying - I'm sure I'd be much the same with certain types of music, but I just find it interesting when folks say that kind of "they've done absolutely nothing of note" rather than the more accurate "it's just not my thing" - going into threads about musicians that just aren't aimed at you to say it's rubbish just seems really odd to me but I suppose we've all done it. Also I acknowledge that I've done this too, but we've veered massively off topic from the original point of the video which is "this guy has learnt to play his own format of guitar and therefore plays quite differently", which I would have thought should be of interest here!

Litterick

That bearded man hypes up everything, and Collier is perfect for his purposes. But Collier did not reinvent the guitar, did he? Everything he does looks terribly exciting, and he does a lot of things, but the things do not make a much of a whole. The music is easy listening.

MartinBush

I'm not a fan of the tracks I've heard so far, but will surely find a track or two I like if I keep looking. Just not quite my thing, but that's not the point.

What I do like is his enthusiasm in the clip. That encourages me to keep listening.

distressed

Litterick said:

That bearded man hypes up everything, and Collier is perfect for his purposes. But Collier did not reinvent the guitar, did he? Everything he does looks terribly exciting, and he does a lot of things, but the things do not make a much of a whole. The music is easy listening.

That's the thing with such kind of players, they can be fun if you're interested in process, not necessarily the result.

enjo

He is clearly new to the guitar - not sure which pickup is selected/can't use a pick... But he is also very good at playing guitar.
It's a really interesting watch, I enjoy both of their work and will probably watch this again as they do talk about very interesting points, it's quite inspirational. 

For me it reinforces - I should be practicing music more, not practicing guitar more.
Back to my piano lessons!

OilCityPickups

Obviously super talented ... not really my cup of tea, but glad he's out there. 

english_bob

thecolourbox said:

Yeah I get that and I get what PhillyQ is saying - I'm sure I'd be much the same with certain types of music, but I just find it interesting when folks say that kind of "they've done absolutely nothing of note" rather than the more accurate "it's just not my thing" - going into threads about musicians that just aren't aimed at you to say it's rubbish just seems really odd to me but I suppose we've all done it. 

I try to make sure I stick to the "not my thing" side of the line- it irritates me too when people don't seem to recognise the difference between "what I like" and "what is objectively good or bad".

Bowks

english_bob said:

I vote for "too clever by half". 

I get that he knows everything there is to know about music, but I've yet to hear anything of his that actually did something for me. All his covers seem to be exercises in demonstrating how thankful you should be that your musical heroes know less than he does about music theory.

Try the latest album, Djesse Vol 4. 

It's really resonated with me, in a way the earlier material doesn't. Maybe because we are Strandberg bros!

He's a sauvant, immersed in music since birth. I am warming to his music, having admired his knowledge and abilty for a few years. I think he'd be the first artist I take my kids to see in concert, would be great if he played Camp Bestival or did a matinee show at the O2 later this year.

thecolourbox

I suppose I'm probably overly defensive as I feel a sort of affinity with his approach and background - being a piano player who has learnt to do other stuff using my piano brain (I don't really know how to use a pick either and have been playing 20 years now), I did a lot of music theory and harmony work as a youngster and listen to a lot of classical which you could also argue could be a lot of "music for music's sake" as seems to be the criticism here. Also the absolute obsession and hyper focus on what you're doing seems quite apparent. I've also learnt over time that I prefer things influenced by styles more than the specific styles themselves, which he does well - for example I like things influenced by folk, jazz, r&b etc much more than I enjoy the styles in their original context. And lastly, 25% of my living is made doing piano "covers" of well known tunes in my piano style, so again, some affinity there.

Sadly though what I lack is his talent to see it through

(I do like the idea of a 5 string mini guitar though to try out this tuning a bit more)

timmypix

Just watched the interview and wow!

I've come across bits of his music and been amazed by what's going on, particularly harmonically, even when it's not necessarily appealed musically.

What comes across in the interview is perhaps something we could all do with a bit more of: a love of music and the guitar as a toy with which to play with music, rather than necessarily a love of guitars. He reminds me of being at school and learning about what other instruments can do, that pure excitement of "hey it makes this cool sound" and he does without - as Paul points out - the traditional guitarist hang-ups of wanting to sound like our heroes.

Interesting that he says he was almost put off the guitar at first by the initial inability to approach it without jumping through cliched hoops, but now he's had his chance to have fun with it, he's now interested in going back to basics too.

Also, very cool (and canny) of Ola Strandberg to build that very fun Boden for him!

brojangles

The guitar-industrial complex plants these musical prodigies who make rather boring music in the info-stream in order to put us off learning about harmony, etc, so that we'll spend more time obsessing about gear and buying gear.

I wonder if he's related to John Payne Collier, the Victorian Shakespeare guy who forged loads of stuff to "prove" his suggested edits were right.

elstoof

He is supremely talented, in a way that I’m ant once very jealous of and completely uninterested in. He’s obviously doing something right to win the Grammy awards and go on world tours but it’s not really my jam, it’s all very “academia”. 

sev112

We do all easiest the he isn’t a guitarist right ?  He just has a a couple and is learning to play them effectively 

timmypix

sev112 said:

We do all easiest the he isn’t a guitarist right ?  He just has a a couple and is learning to play them effectively 

What makes a guitarist a guitarist? What's the entry bar for ability at guitar for being a guitarist? I dare say he's more competent than some members of this forum who would call themselves guitarists. Are you not a guitarist if you play other instruments as well? Or if guitar isn't your main instrument? Or does it depend on how effectively you guard the entry guitars to Guitaristism?

Zoolooter

Deep down he’s probably thinking why can’t I just write something like Wonderwall.

thecolourbox

I think his point is that the guitar is not his primary thing, it's something he's doing as an experiment and to learn something new. It's worth noting that on most of his Djesse albums he's got other people in to be "the guitarist" (Vai and Mayer are on the latest one) and can't think off hand where he's got somebody else in to play piano for him, for example

Epsilon

Schnozz said:

theatreanchor said:

No one else find him insufferably smug? 

Just another rich London kid. Self-taught? I doubt it.

Wow, what a bitter and pathetic comment.

Regardless of background - formal training or otherwise - the guy clearly has extraordinary talent. Can't say I care to listen to much of his music (not to my taste), but anyone who has bothered to engage beyond superficial impressions can see that.

timmypix

thecolourbox said:

I think his point is that the guitar is not his primary thing, it's something he's doing as an experiment and to learn something new. It's worth noting that on most of his Djesse albums he's got other people in to be "the guitarist" (Vai and Mayer are on the latest one) and can't think off hand where he's got somebody else in to play piano for him, for example

Fair enough, it's not his primary thing.

So?

Does that invalidate him talking about his unique approach to it? If anything, that probably drives his approach as a guitarist, as the interview shows. I just thought it was an odd, dismissive, ignorant comment and I think we should be better than that, really.

 I'm actually surprised (not sure why) at the handful of comments in this thread setting out to minimise/dismiss, either overtly or by inference. Collier's talent and ability. It comes across as insecure. Even if you don't like his music, surely his talent and different perspective are worth acknowledging, even if just from the interview that sparked this discussion.

thecolourbox

timmypix said:

thecolourbox said:

I think his point is that the guitar is not his primary thing, it's something he's doing as an experiment and to learn something new. It's worth noting that on most of his Djesse albums he's got other people in to be "the guitarist" (Vai and Mayer are on the latest one) and can't think off hand where he's got somebody else in to play piano for him, for example

Fair enough, it's not his primary thing.

So?

Does that invalidate him talking about his unique approach to it? If anything, that probably drives his approach as a guitarist, as the interview shows. I just thought it was an odd, dismissive, ignorant comment and I think we should be better than that, really.

 I'm actually surprised (not sure why) at the number of comments in this thread setting out to minimise/dismiss, either overtly or by inference. Collier's talent and ability. It comes across as insecure. Even if you don't like his music, surely his talent and different perspective are worth acknowledging, even if just from the interview that sparked this discussion.

I think I've been pretty vocal in his support!

I took the comment of "you do realise he' not a guitarist" to mean like, give the guy a break as he's clearly excellent at guitar despite being relatively new to it and has come up with this new way of playing? I don't think he meant it dismissively, quite the opposite in fact - despite it not being his primary instrument he's come up with new ways to play it and become proficient enough to record and tour playing it amongst the rest of the ridiculously skilfull music going on!