Advice please - (another) what guitar?

RonanF

Hi all. I played guitar to an intermediate level many years ago. Then work, kids etc got in the way and I didn’t play for a long time. I picked up a guitar again before Christmas and have become somewhat obsessed! I have a 2002 Les Paul and a 1995 Martin DM and I’m playing 95% acoustic these days. 

I’d like to buy another acoustic, something higher quality and a little different to the Martin. I had my heart set on a Lowden, I’ve always loved them - in particular the variety of tone woods and the craftsmanship. 

I’ve played a few and really like them, I’m just somewhat concerned that I’d be a bit limited if I bought one and should I buy something that’s a bit more well rounded. The Lowdens I played were fantastic for finger style but not so much for strumming. I play a combination of strumming, finger style and flat picking, so I’m pausing for thought to see if I should consider something else.  

In terms of alternatives, I’m getting a little bamboozled because there’s so much variety. A D18 and J45 seem to be ubiquitous excellent guitars, but would they be too similar to my current Martin DM (albeit higher quality)? Then there are brands like Larriveé and Yairi that I’ve been reading about and look really interesting. I don’t care about having a big brand name, I’m more interested in the quality of the guitar. 

Would appreciate any advice/suggestions from the so many learned member here. Budget is ~€6k. Thanks! 

TTony

RonanF said:

 Budget is ~€6k. Thanks! 

Before spending that sort of money, I would want to have played a few different options first.

No idea what your nearby guitar shop options are, but I'd be looking at travelling a few hundred miles to visit a few shops to try out a decent range of options, including ones that I'd not normally have considered.

More risky option is to trust one of the established builders to make something for you.

TheMadMick

I've had a lot of success with Avalon. If you phone Steve to discuss your requirements, then he can fettle the guitar to your needs.  The only thing that might put you off  that the necks are quite chunky - never mattered to me.

Try your luck. He is always willing to haggle.

RonanF

TTony said:

RonanF said:

 Budget is ~€6k. Thanks! 

Before spending that sort of money, I would want to have played a few different options first.

No idea what your nearby guitar shop options are, but I'd be looking at travelling a few hundred miles to visit a few shops to try out a decent range of options, including ones that I'd not normally have considered.

More risky option is to trust one of the established builders to make something for you.

Absolutely! I live in the west of Ireland so don’t have much in terms of variety here. So I want to put together a hit list of guitars I’d like to play either in Dublin or London. 

RonanF

TheMadMick said:

I've had a lot of success with Avalon. If you phone Steve to discuss your requirements, then he can fettle the guitar to your needs.  The only thing that might put you off  that the necks are quite chunky - never mattered to me.

Try your luck. He is always willing to haggle.

Hadn’t heard of Avalon. Will take a look. Thanks. 

maltingsaudio

Saw your in Galway , there was an Irish Luthier called Chris Larkin who made fabulous guitars. Have a hunt to see if there are any locally to you. https://chrislarkinowners.com/ 

Otherwise my choice would be a Fylde Alchemist but I’m biased!

stickyfiddle

TTony said:

RonanF said:

 Budget is ~€6k. Thanks! 

Before spending that sort of money, I would want to have played a few different options first.

No idea what your nearby guitar shop options are, but I'd be looking at travelling a few hundred miles to visit a few shops to try out a decent range of options, including ones that I'd not normally have considered.

More risky option is to trust one of the established builders to make something for you.

100% this before you just end up with a list of stuff everyone here owns and likes  

I'll happily extol the virtues of my Atkin and Bourgeois because they do the "reissue an old USA-build thing from the 40s" thing so well, and that works for me - but it might not be what you need. At that sort of investment your first step should certainly be to get to a couple of big dealers and try LOADS of things to establish exactly what you like and what you don't. Guitar Village & Coda would be my pick of destinations within the UK. 

TTony

RonanF said:

So I want to put together a hit list of guitars I’d like to play either in Dublin or London. 

London might not be the best place to try out a few - you'd probably need a road trip to take in places like Guitar Village (Farnham), Coda (Stevenage) and Richards Guitars (Stratford).

Take a look at their websites to get an idea of who makes what in that price range, spend some time down the YT rabbit hole, prepare your shortlist, check which retailers have got which models in stock, plan the trip ... and then buy something completely different because it talks to you when you play it

Tannin

Some random thoughts in no particular order, just ideas to ponder:

* Lowdens are the real deal. They are very dear, but 100% of the one examples I have played were simply outstanding. So far as picking a quality instrument goes, you'll be very safe.

* The Lowden sound - I am assured that the one I played was representative - is very distinctive indeed. I don't see why you couldn't flatpick one at a pinch, but strumming might be a bridge too far.

* I can't really see owning a Lowden and staying happy with the Martin DM. I mean you might, but you may equally well find yourself feeling dissatisfied with it and not playing it so much one you start to really appreciate the qualities of a Lowden-standard instrument.

* For €6000 you'd be close enough to buying two Brooks! Order anything you like, they'll make it for you.

* There are about six other makers working pretty much along the same lines as Lowden. @TheMadMick has already mentioned Avalon, I'll add Mcilroy. This might get you to round-about the same place and save you a penny along the way. The Mcilroy I tried was very Lowdenesque but not quite so extreme - i.e., rich and full of harmonics like a Lowden, but a couple of steps away from that and back in the direction of "normal guitar". (Whatever "normal guitar" is!)  In my boots, having several quality guitars already, I preferred the Lowden as it was very different to my existing instruments - anytime the Lowden got a bit wearing and over the top, I could pick up the Guild or a Maton or something. But as an only guitar, I'd prefer the Mcilroy as it was more easy-going and more versatile.

* If I was UK based and wanted something in the D-18 or J-45 style, I'd look to Atkin. I've never played one and don't really intend to as I prefer European and Australian-style guitars, but I don't think I've ever heard anyone say bad things about Atkin. Even the Americans respect them. If I was leaning more in the D-28 direction, then Lakewood. (But either way, if you buy a Lowden, you won't have any spare change for an Atkin or a Martin.)

malcolmkindness

Hi Ronan, I live in Leitrim and have some very nice and varied acoustic guitars. You are very welcome to visit me and try them out to give you an idea of what you might be looking for. €6k is an awful lot of money to take a chance with.

Other than that, your best and most convenient options are Moloney Music in Galway or Someneck in Dublin.

Send me a message if you want to get in touch.

earwighoney

RonanF said:

Hi all. I played guitar to an intermediate level many years ago. Then work, kids etc got in the way and I didn’t play for a long time. I picked up a guitar again before Christmas and have become somewhat obsessed! I have a 2002 Les Paul and a 1995 Martin DM and I’m playing 95% acoustic these days. 

I’d like to buy another acoustic, something higher quality and a little different to the Martin. I had my heart set on a Lowden, I’ve always loved them - in particular the variety of tone woods and the craftsmanship. 

I’ve played a few and really like them, I’m just somewhat concerned that I’d be a bit limited if I bought one and should I buy something that’s a bit more well rounded. The Lowdens I played were fantastic for finger style but not so much for strumming. I play a combination of strumming, finger style and flat picking, so I’m pausing for thought to see if I should consider something else.  

In terms of alternatives, I’m getting a little bamboozled because there’s so much variety. A D18 and J45 seem to be ubiquitous excellent guitars, but would they be too similar to my current Martin DM (albeit higher quality)? Then there are brands like Larriveé and Yairi that I’ve been reading about and look really interesting. I don’t care about having a big brand name, I’m more interested in the quality of the guitar. 

Would appreciate any advice/suggestions from the so many learned member here. Budget is ~€6k. Thanks! 

I love Lowdens, fantastic guitars, but they sounded absolutely awful in my hands.

It might go against popular consensus, but I have a suspicion (with a few exceptions) if one spends more than a £3k or so, the more individual the guitar will be and it will not suit every way of playing.  The most extreme example of this I have come across, was on an American guitar forum when a user posted a video of him playing his £30k acoustic guitar, but he was playing a piece by a guitarist who played a £800 Taylor acoustic for fingerstyle blues.  The £30k guitar when played had so many overtones, it sounded like a mess as there were so many overtones clashing. 

I've got a cheap Recording King, which doesn't sound great by any stretch of the imagination, it doesn't have much sustain but it seems to work the best for when I play slide guitar.  It's not my only guitar, I quite like having a few different contrasting acoustic guitars to provide different sounds and characters.

So what would I do if I was you?  I would try a number of different guitars to find out what would suit my way of playing the most and take your time to find the instrument that suits your playing the most.  From my experiences anyway, the most expensive guitar might be the best guitar but it might not be the one which will suit the individual the most, I'd always recommend finding the right guitar opposed to the best guitar.

RonanF

Thank you all so much for such helpful replies. I’m putting together a shortlist of guitars I’m interested in and then will figure out how to play them all before buying. 

Warblington

Have a look at Donal Mcgreevy based in Northern Ireland if you like the Lowden, McIlroy type of guitar. Great builder and nice to deal with.There’d  be no silly import taxes either if you’re in the UK.

RonanF

Warblington said:

Have a look at Donal Mcgreevy based in Northern Ireland if you like the Lowden, McIlroy type of guitar. Great builder and nice to deal with.There’d  be no silly import taxes either if you’re in the UK.

Just looked him up. Wow! Amazing stuff, but almost nothing for sale and BIG money. Northern Ireland has some phenomenal luthiers at the moment. 

On that note, has anyone experienced with Ciaran McNally’s guitars? They look very nice. Going to play one next week. 

malcolmkindness

Yes, I have experience of Ciaran McNally guitars, he is a personal friend and a very nice young man. They might be just what you need, a sort of mid Atlantic sound, less celtic than McIlroy or Lowden. You might also check out Domhnall O'Rainne in Galway, a similar builder, Donal McGreevy is very, very expensive. 

Tannin

malcolmkindness said:

Donal McGreevy is very, very expensive. 

But can't afford a working website. Hmmm ... And here I was thinking that "under construction" websites went out in 1993. 

Still, if you have more work than you can cope with, why waste time on advertising?

RonanF

malcolmkindness said:

Yes, I have experience of Ciaran McNally guitars, he is a personal friend and a very nice young man. They might be just what you need, a sort of mid Atlantic sound, less celtic than McIlroy or Lowden. You might also check out Domhnall O'Rainne in Galway, a similar builder, Donal McGreevy is very, very expensive. 

Will have a look at O’Rainne. Thank you!

Do you know if Ciaran McNally sells anything directly from his workshop or is it all through dealers? He’s not a million miles from me.  

Jez6345789

For what its worth my 10 pence as much as you are potentially into luthier money I would stay well clear. As much as people here have had success and got the guitar they want the reality is you dont know what you want and the interpretive part of the luthier process means a lot could get lost in translation. Also perosnally if I pickup high end luthier guitars I have to get my head in that zone as its too distant from what I hear on a day to day basis. You dont become knowledgeable  about wine from your first glass of Talbot high end guitars I find are like fine wine you have to understand what you are playing. 

So work out what you like and go try some stuff as you say Dublin or London. I am not sure whats left in London these days sure someone can advise good acoustic places last time I went I was very disappointed and all very RRP offers. 

Warblington

Tannin said:

malcolmkindness said:

Donal McGreevy is very, very expensive. 

But can't afford a working website. Hmmm ... And here I was thinking that "under construction" websites went out in 1993. 

Still, if you have more work than you can cope with, why waste time on advertising?

How do you know he can’t afford a ‘working website’ ? He’s a gentleman and gifted luthier. So c’mon , how do you know?

Tannin

Warblington said:

How do you know he can’t afford a ‘working website’ ? He’s a gentleman and gifted luthier. So c’mon , how do you know?

Oh FFS. Don't take my word for it, see for yourself. https://www.mcgreevyguitars.com

Warblington

Tannin said:

Warblington said:

How do you know he can’t afford a ‘working website’ ? He’s a gentleman and gifted luthier. So c’mon , how do you know?

Oh FFS. Don't take my word for it, see for yourself. https://www.mcgreevyguitars.com

That’s not the point. How do know he can’t AFFORD a working website? You shouldn’t be casting aspersions on people.