Guitar Setup

ICBM

richardhomer said:

Suhr recommends hardly any relief at all - around half the thickness of a top E string.

That's roughly what I go for too - half the G string diameter or better, which is not far off the same. I use the G because it's easier to see the gap in the middle of the neck. Any more than the G string diameter is too much - and if that can't be achieved without rattle, there's something else wrong with either the neck or the frets, at which point you might need a straight-edge to check.

richardhomer said:

For some reason, longer scale, bolt-on necks always seem 'buzzier' - probably because they tend to emphasise the higher harmonics. That 'rattly' quality is very much a characteristic of vintage style Strats

Agreed - although I tend to find it doesn't come out through the amp much.

I also have to admit that I'm not a fan of getting the action as low as possible - if it rattles, raise it. Tone is more important and is often affected before the point the rattles are clearly audible as well.

richardhomer said:

I would be amazed if there was anything actually 'wrong' with the guitar. Whilst I'm personally not a lover of Suhr instruments, their built quality is beyond criticism usually.

Also agreed.

Neil

I had a serious go at setting up my Strat going by measurements and got nothing but buzz.

I understand the fundamentals but realise that somebody with years of experience will do a far better job than me. 

Life's too short to spend hours mucking around with it so as he is only a few miles from me I will probably be running it down to that Feline chap. 

ThePrettyDamned

thomasross20 said:

Just got to go out, keep suggestions coming. 

What's the best way to distinguish genuine fret buzz (which I now think isn't a problem..) and bridge rattle?

Depends what the bridge is? 

But loose or cheap saddle screws, or saddle screws that have had their threads stripped, can rattle. 

Try putting some thread lock on them.

The green tinge looks like it's just a bad piece of maple.

Bad for looks.  I doubt it has anything to do with the 'quality' of the wood, likewise, poplar often has green streaks running through, which is why it's often cheap - it's actually supposed to be a very good 'tonewood'. Which tells me it's probably not a boutique type superstrat - they'd probably reject that, or use it on a cut price 'B-stock' guitar.  If it's an expensive production run type guitar then things like that happen - it's nothing to worry about. 

It looks like a Suhr or similar - they'd not use incorrectly seasoned wood, I'm sure. 

ThePrettyDamned

Neil said:

I had a serious go at setting up my Strat going by measurements and got nothing but buzz.

I understand the fundamentals but realise that somebody with years of experience will do a far better job than me. 

Life's too short to spend hours mucking around with it so as he is only a few miles from me I will probably be running it down to that Feline chap. 

Also, this.  I'm going to try and set up my strat, but take both of them to him and see what magic he can do - as well as maybe a bit of feedback on my own attempt. 

thomasross20

Suhr Pro S4, 2013 model. So I wouldn't expect there to be anything wrong with it, to be honest. Would you be worried? At LAST, a reply to the green fretboard question! 

As for set-up... I spent a couple HOURS tonight tweaking here, there and everywhere. I did it by the numbers (0.01" relief or more at the 7th/8th fret, 4-5/64" clearance at ~fret 15, etc).. but didn't help much. 

In fact first I tried the numbers on my PRS. Gutted because it played great before and now feels every so slightly different. Or maybe it's just because I'm hyper-aware of all this now. Then on the Suhr I set lots of relief on the neck and raised the saddles big-time but could still hear some buzz, even amplified. Maybe it's the stainless steel frets, who knows - I've never had any guitar with those before. 

Honestly thinking about just taking it to a tech but given I raised the saddles high and lots of relief on the neck and still heard the buzz, I don't know what they could do about it. 

I'm pretty tired of all this now, to be honest. I just want to go back to PLAYING. 

Just to be clear, the seller seems a decent guy and I'm not having a pop at the guy. I'm just trying to sort this out for myself given the cost of such an instrument. I contacted the seller so hopefully he'll get back to me

John_P

How are you adjusting the relief?   Are you adjusting the truss rod?    (you do mean in the middle of the neck and not action)
Are you adding any shims to alter the neck angle?

If you're tweaking the truss rod then it can take a little while for the neck to settle - it's not a quick process, I wonder if you're over doing things expecting to see immediate results.

thomasross20

How long are you talking, a couple of hours per adjustment? 

FYI the buzzing isn't just frets 3-9 or whatever you'd expect the truss rod to sort out... it's also the higher frets.

John_P

I turn it a quarter turn, turn it to pitch and leave it til the next day.  I like a tiny bit of relief and tweak it til I'm happy with the feel,  then adjust the action with the bridge, using a shim if necessary.   If it's buzzing or choking then raise the action.  
I can live with a little bit of buzz played without plugging in, if I want it super low and check it sounds ok through an amp - I hate any choking on bends though but you shouldn't suffer that on a Suhr neck.

I'm assuming a well cut nut and no raised frets of course. 

RaymondLin

I'd be inclined to get a tech to sort it out.

thomasross20

Reckon I need to go to the shop, try out similar Suhrs for comparison and hand this to a tech to take care of.

monquixote

Get a tech to do it. 

A Suhr isn't the guitar to be learning how to do setups on. 

If you don't know what you are doing you can snap your truss rod and then you are in real trouble. 

Considering the amount you must have paid for the guitar I wouldn't grudge an extra £50-100 to have someone very skilled sort it out for you.

FelineGuitars

Set-up wise I would go for about 4-8 thou relief 

Put a capo on at the first fret and hold strings down at body joint (about 17th fret) and measure above 7th or 8th fret

Action - I would shoot for between 45-49 thou (use feeler gauges)Again - capo on at 1st fret

Measure with gauges 

12th fret on low E

13th fret A

14th fret D

15th fret G

16th fret B

17th fret High E

Buzzing issues 

Maple board and stainless frets will exacerbate any buzz that is there - you will hear it more clearly than on a rosewood board

BIG TIP: Try lowering the single coil pickups till the top of them is only just above the pickguard and see if the fret buzz reduces (not suggesting this as a permanent move - just assessing if the magnets are causing problems)

A big factor in strat string buzz can be magnetic pull on the strings, and having the rod magnets of single coils too close can cause havoc - if pulling the pickups away from the strings helps , then you have found the culprit.

Solution ? Not sure , especially if the sound is no longer strong enough like this as there is comprimise between having the pickups close enough for sensitivity and and coping with any buzz they may create.

ThePrettyDamned

Wise words from feline. Totally forgot about pickup magnets!

What sort of bridge does it have? Could easily be a saddle screw vibrating, and that's easily tested - put a bit of blue tack or something over the head of the screw to 'stick' it to the saddle. If the buzzing goes, you need some thread lock.

I wouldn't worry about the green streak. Suhr are a factory production guitar - they won't check every single bit of wood - things like that slip through the net, and it probably won't affect the sound or playability.

Looks like a mineral streak, it's the kind of thing that wouldn't bother me if the guitar is outstanding.

Evilmags

Tom, some techs will let you pay a bit more and watch them set up your guitar. Chandlers in London did. Maybe just pay for a lesson in guitar set up and then your sorted.

thomasross20

Thanks, all - much appreciated. Will follow Feline's advice and if no improvement see about sitting alongside a tech as per mags' suggestion. 

It's 6 saddle bridge, resting on 2 picot points. The green isn't a major put-off, I'd have just liked to have known what could cause such a thing and if it meant anything for the fretboard wood.

sunshinewelly

From my own point of view - I would be mighty peeved if i spent over £1000 on a guitar which had a green tinge to the maple (unless of course it had been pointed out to the buyer).

A suhr should not rattle.

A suhr would be plexed at the factory so there shouldn't be an issue with the frets and if there was a guitar that you could set at an almost flat relief then surely its a suhr. Even though 0.25 mm (0.010 inches ) is recommended i have most of my guitars at 0.15 mm relief as i prefer a flat neck. that suhr should easily be buzz free at a relief less than 0.25 mm.

One thing i have noticed is that some necks can feel they have a higher action than others even when set at the same action. I gave an example on the strat i bought yesterday at world guitars. When i played it in the shop the action seemed high - i spoke to jeff and he said it was perfect. however he agreed to lower it and  gave it  back to me to try out - it felt much better. Brought it home and measured the action with my guitar rule and it found it was lower than my other guitars (a tad under 3/64 which is low). Again it did not feel at first that it was that low but realised that as it had a chunky 65 C neck and set with 10's it just felt higher)

the moral is that a guage is the only true way of measuring an action.

back to the shur though it sounds as if something is lose and causing the rattle. 

though that would rattle on open strings as well i assume. 

richardhomer

Even on a Pro-Series, I cannot imagine Suhr would intend to use cosmetically imperfect wood. They are cheaper because they are built in large batches - not because they use sub-standard materials.

I would personally want a refund. Whether discoloured maple is structurally inferior to wood that isn't discoloured is irrelevant. On a high-end guitar, everything should be right.

There is no guarantee that anyone will keep any guitar forever and your average Suhr buyer will be no more accepting of cosmetic issues as a PRS buyer. This will be an issue for you, if you decide to part with it.

I would throw no money whatsoever at stopping the buzzing - get your cash back and buy a better example.

thomasross20

The seller said he never noticed the tinge and that any tinge was due to a light in the other room. He's off here and sounds a decent chap. It's a light tinge, a little off-putting but other than that it plays really well. Same spec as the new standard pros selling for £2200 (I paid £1200 + PayPal fee). I'm still waiting on suhr to get back to me to see what they have to say. I've managed to get the buzzing down apart from on the low E, I think part of it is due to the ss frets

sunshinewelly

SS Frets have nothing to do with it m I have them on my EVH wolfgang and that has a very low action. Ultimately it may well play fine but you may have trouble shifting it in the future. Any warranty is unlikely to apply to you but I have heard that suhrs customer service is very good

thomasross20

I've texted the seller to ask if he can cover the cost of a basic setup, assuming suhr come back and say the green tinge is nothing to worry about. The seller never spotted the green tinge but it's definitely part of the wood and has been said, would likely affect resale value. If he can pay for a setup that will guarantee all is OK and I will take any further reduction on the chin in future (set up should only cost £50 or so). Hopefully that all sounds reasonable - for a £1200 purchase I think it's a decent proposal and I can I've with the cosmetic imperfection if it plays and sounds well. It's true, the green tinge does niggle so I had to text the guy, I couldn't say I was 100% over the moon when I saw it was part of the wood itself .. Though I regret having to do it. I'm not trying to try it on and the guy sounds a decent chap so hopefully it can be resolved amicably. Let's see what happens Does anybody think this is unreasonable?

FYI half of the bridge came off in transit but I put it back on the knife edge. I don't think that would cause the buzz issues!