fender strats with "noiseless" pick ups

John_P

I've got a set of fender noiseless (vintage I think) in one of my strats - I like them.

Philly_Q

TheGuitarWeasel said:

I think many manufacturers shy away from the 'best' solution to hum cancelling 'single coils': that is the split single coil (like a P Bass).

Yeah, I think Curtis Novak does a Tele bridge pickup which is two half-coils disguised as a conventional pickup.  I do wonder if the coil windings are a bit squished between the D and G polepieces though.

And there were the "domino" pickups on old PRS EGs.  And G&L's Z-coils.  It does seem like the best, and in some ways simplest, solution... but they look a bit ungainly.

OilCityPickups

The only way to get all the wire on a 'split

Philly_Q said:

TheGuitarWeasel said:

I think many manufacturers shy away from the 'best' solution to hum cancelling 'single coils': that is the split single coil (like a P Bass).

Yeah, I think Curtis Novak does a Tele bridge pickup which is two half-coils disguised as a conventional pickup.  I do wonder if the coil windings are a bit squished between the D and G polepieces though.

And there were the "domino" pickups on old PRS EGs.  And G&L's Z-coils.  It does seem like the best, and in some ways simplest, solution... but they look a bit ungainly.

The only way to get all the wire on a 'split' in conventional Fender form factor without problems between the D and G strings is to go down a wire gauge. it doesn't cause as many issues as 'stacking' but there are design compromises that have to be made.

mart

I assume that's what the Fender split 55s are - an EAD pup and a GBE pup, wired oppositely to cancel the noise. Anybody tried these?

http://www.americanmusical.com/ItemImages/Large/FEN SPR55STRATBR.jpg

Hootsmon

many thanks guys 

OilCityPickups

mart said:

I assume that's what the Fender split 55s are - an EAD pup and a GBE pup, wired oppositely to cancel the noise. Anybody tried these?

http://www.americanmusical.com/ItemImages/Large/FEN SPR55STRATBR.jpg

Absolutely right .... great pickups

ToneControl

prerty poor reviews here with lots of explanations:
http://www.strat-talk.com/forum/pickup-forum/221210-new-fender-super-55-split-coil-pup-3.html

OilCityPickups

Yes the 55 has some design problems ... some of the reasons for this were because they tried to overcome the challenging design by making everything 'super cheaply' on a nasty PCB base. The G string bending problem is solvable and of course isn't a problem on the bridge B1 prototype I built, as the string excursion that close to the bridge even during the severest bend is not appreciable. The pickup should have been made with taller bobbins in my own opinion .... rather than try and stick a standard bobbin height and use cheaper 'standard' covers. Making the bobbin taller would have allowed them to use thicker wire and improved the treble response. I use this dodge on my own StoneTone Strat pickups ... allowing me to wind them much hotter than 'vintage' without getting the treble roll off  associated with some 'hot' Strat units. With the StoneTones it's a matter of a couple of millimeters which most people only notice if it is pointed out! Taller slimmer coils have more treble ... matter of physics.
The 55 had a really good idea behind it .. sadly compromised by cheap production. I'd like to see Fender to come up with a mark 2 ... the sound was promising.

mart

ToneControl said:

prerty poor reviews here with lots of explanations:
http://www.strat-talk.com/forum/pickup-forum/221210-new-fender-super-55-split-coil-pup-3.html

Thanks for linking that - there's some very interesting stuff there. 

I can see why two poles side by side would create a dead spot for certain string bends, which the G&L pups get round by basic geometry, just like P bass pups. All of which makes me suspect that Leo knew the problem, so it's funny to see "his" company fall into that trap so many years later.

The zexcoil pickup seems an interesting way round it, but sacrifices the classic Strat look with the slanted rails. I'm curious what approach @TheGuitarWeasel would take to get round it.

Philly_Q

Anyone tried the Fralin Split-Blade pickups?  I wonder if they deal with the D/G dropout problem any more seccessfully?

They still have the problem of looking non-traditional of course, but personally I think they look a bit better than the Zexcoils.

Basher

Like I said, I thought the Lace Holy Grails were nice and much more stratty than the Sensors I had in my Strat Plus (although I liked those as well, albeit in a slightly smoother-sounding sort of way).

They seem to use a side-by-side coil configuration, flipped 90 degrees from the typical humbucker layout. Not sure if this means that the "middle bit" (technical term) is effectively a blade type magnet with cosmetic polepieces.

They're also odd in having a very high DC resistance for singles (around 11k). Assume this is something to do with the construction as they have a vintage output.

 http://www.lacemusic.com/Holy_Grails.php

Deadman

Deluxe Strats. Love the guitars, don't like the pickups. If I had another I'd stick something else in it. As others have said and in my opinion, they're just lacking. Having said that, they do sublime cleans.

OilCityPickups

mart said:

ToneControl said:

prerty poor reviews here with lots of explanations:
http://www.strat-talk.com/forum/pickup-forum/221210-new-fender-super-55-split-coil-pup-3.html

I'm curious what approach @TheGuitarWeasel would take to get round it.

I would use magnetically stronger 'shaped' G and D string poles to 'cross' the fields under the pickup cover ... that's all I'm prepared to say ... as I may end up producing them lol

crunchman

I had a set of Kinmans in a Tele for a while to try and get around problems with an induction loop in our church.  They were horrible.  Never again.

All the US Deluxe Strats I've tried with them in didn't sound good either.  How much of that is pickups I'm not sure.  I suspect that they are a large part of the problem, but it might be partly the modern style bridge as well.  All the best sounding Strats I've played have had a vintage style 6 screw bridge, and vintage style pickups.

Philly_Q

crunchman said:

I had a set of Kinmans in a Tele for a while to try and get around problems with an induction loop in our church.  They were horrible.  Never again.

All the US Deluxe Strats I've tried with them in didn't sound good either.  How much of that is pickups I'm not sure.  I suspect that they are a large part of the problem, but it might be partly the modern style bridge as well.  All the best sounding Strats I've played have had a vintage style 6 screw bridge, and vintage style pickups.

I think you're right about the  bridge on a modern Strat - plus the tuners, bi-flex truss rod etc.  They take away a bit of "character" and give a more controlled, generic, arguably more sterile sort of tone, and maybe a bit more sustain.  That's why I'd be more inclined to try noiseless pickups, of whatever type, on a modern Fender but probably not on a vintage one.

rpr

So what is about the Joe Barden sets that is different? They seem to have a really good rep,compared to most noiseless pickups

Is there any difference between them and the Bill Lawerence/ Wilde pickups who also get good reviews?

Voxman

sunshinewelly;420826" said:

The lace gold pickups on my strat plus are tge best sounding pickups I have heard

Eric Clapton would agree with you. He has the gold lace sensors in his pewter strat. His original Fender signature strat of that guitar had these too but the current version has usa noiseless that don't sound as good and don't respond quite as well to volume and tone roll off.

Philly_Q

rpr said:

So what is about the Joe Barden sets that is different? They seem to have a really good rep,compared to most noiseless pickups

Is there any difference between them and the Bill Lawerence/ Wilde pickups who also get good reviews?

I've never tried Lawrence pickups, but the Bardens certainly have their own thing going.  I've owned a couple of sets of their Tele pickups and a full-size humbucker.

They don't sound like real single-coils to me, but although they're humbuckers they're nothing like, say, Duncan Hot Rails or DiMarzio Fast Tracks.  They have a very "hi fi" sort of sound, bright without being harsh, and they respond very well to the tone controls - I don't know how, but when you roll down the tone control the sound somehow gets fatter.

Having said all that, I now prefer a traditional single-coil sound.  And on the Teles I found the neck pickup sounded too similar to the bridge, I like more of a contrast.

But hey, I can't argue with Danny Gatton.

Voxman

I have a Fender American Deluxe 2004 50th anniversary Strat (a proper one, not just a stock Deluxe with the commemerative 50th neck plate that Fender/dealers put on all the 2004 guitars) that has Bill Lawrence Somarium Cobalt Noiseless pickups wired with S1 switching. They sound terrific and the tone in conventional switch positions sound uncannily close to my original '69 Strat...but without the hum.

Not counting the Mexican Gold Strat, there were three special 50th versions. In addition to the Deluxe, there was an American standard version and a Fender Custom Shop version, both of which had the 1954 classic pickups which were intended to replicate those used in the 1954 Strats, but which although had a great vintagy tone were not noiseless.

siraxeman

Voxman said:

sunshinewelly;420826" said:

The lace gold pickups on my strat plus are tge best sounding pickups I have heard

Eric Clapton would agree with you. He has the gold lace sensors in his pewter strat. His original Fender signature strat of that guitar had these too but the current version has usa noiseless that don't sound as good and don't respond quite as well to volume and tone roll off.

why would Clapton agree when he seems to no longer be seen using lace sensor's but is always seen using the stock vintage noiseless pups?