fender strats with "noiseless" pick ups

stickyfiddle

I haven't tried Strat Bardens but I had a Tele set. Excellent pickups, and brilliant for gigging as they were dead silent in any venue. Little bit polite compared with the BKP Bosses I now use. The Strat ones sound fantastic in Nils Lofgren's strat though; really great with some hefty boost.

ToneControl

Bardens are something different, the ones I have (Two tone - HB size but with a SC mode) add a strange edgy presence that is not unpleasant, but is not like a strat. I have them on a 51 pawnshop and a baritone blacktop tele - very nice, and a good HB sound too

hubobulous

I really like the Suhr SSCII system, especially since the tone doesn't change when it's engaged.

I have a set of DiMarzio Areas to go into a parts build. I like the sound of demos I've heard.

richh

I've been very happy with a Kinman AVn set in a strat.  But the only way to know is to try out for yourself, with your amp if possible.

BTW, you probably are already aware, but even on a standard strat with regular pickups, you do eliminate a lot of hum / buzz by using positions 2 or 4, if you are happy with the out of phase sounds?

I got my Kinman pickups a good while back, so I'm not sure if these are the same as the current models.

ToneControl

one can just add a dummy coil of course

Voxman

siraxeman said:

Voxman said:

sunshinewelly;420826" said:

The lace gold pickups on my strat plus are tge best sounding pickups I have heard

Eric Clapton would agree with you. He has the gold lace sensors in his pewter strat. His original Fender signature strat of that guitar had these too but the current version has usa noiseless that don't sound as good and don't respond quite as well to volume and tone roll off.

why would Clapton agree when he seems to no longer be seen using lace sensor's but is always seen using the stock vintage noiseless pups?

  Like all of us he's probably just fickle...or it could be marketing deals with Fender re current EC signature.  Either way, he still performed his Journeyman concerts and others with the Gold Lace Sensors - so how bad can they be!
>:D<

richardhomer

FWIW I think EC sounded better on Lace Sensors - his Hyde Park DVD tone is superb. The cleaner sounds were definitely more 'Stratty' than they are now.

I have Golds in the middle and neck positions of my 'slide' Strat (it's a 20 year old American Standard) and they sound really good.

I suspect the only reason Fender no longer use them is that they want everything 'in house'.

siraxeman

Positions 2 and 4 on a strat are not out of phase....why do people think that?

crunchman

richh said:

I've been very happy with a Kinman AVn set in a strat.  But the only way to know is to try out for yourself, with your amp if possible.

BTW, you probably are already aware, but even on a standard strat with regular pickups, you do eliminate a lot of hum / buzz by using positions 2 or 4, if you are happy with the out of phase sounds?

I got my Kinman pickups a good while back, so I'm not sure if these are the same as the current models.

The middle pickup needs to be RWRP wound to get this.  A genuine vintage style Strat gives hum in these positions as well.

Philly_Q

siraxeman said:

Positions 2 and 4 on a strat are not out of phase....why do people think that?

It's just one of those common guitar player errors, like coil tap versus coil split.

jaymenon

OilCityPickups said:

mart said:

I assume that's what the Fender split 55s are - an EAD pup and a GBE pup, wired oppositely to cancel the noise. Anybody tried these?

http://www.americanmusical.com/ItemImages/Large/FEN SPR55STRATBR.jpg

Absolutely right .... great pickups

I found an interesting review / analysis of these pickups here:
http://www.strat-talk.com/threads/fender-super55-split-coil-analysis-and-review.441252/

Major Excerpts:
...at the middle of the pickup, there is a "dead spot" in between the two coils. The reason for this is because the magnetic polarity of the EAD poles are opposite that of the GBE poles, and the polarity transitions right in the middle. When you have two magnets of opposite polarities side by side, they create a magnetic null in between then, where there are equal parts north and south. When the string is in that space, it's very weakly magnetized.

Here is the strength profile of an SSL-1, a Strat pickup that is as generic as they come. This is actual data, more on how I acquired in here http://guitarnuts2.proboards.com/post/81527/thread

Seymour Duncan SSL-1

pole____offset__raw_____adjusted
________0.5_____-46_____2__**
E_______1_______-38_____10_**********
________1.5_____-37_____11_***********
A_______2_______-37_____11_***********  
________2.5_____-37_____11_***********
D_______3_D_____-36_____12_************
________3.5_____-36_____12_************
G_______4_G_____-36_____12_************
________4.5_____-38_____10_**********
B_______5_______-38_____10_**********
________5.5_____-39_____9__*********
E_______6_______-40_____8__********
________6.5_____-48_____0__



and here is the profile of the Super 55:

Fender Super55 Neck/Middle

pole____offset__raw_____adjusted
________0.5_____-48_____1__*
E_______1_______-43_____6__******
________1.5_____-43_____6__******
A_______2_______-42_____7__*******
________2.5_____-44_____5__*****
D_______3_D_____-45_____4__****
________3.5_____-49_____0__
G_______4_G_____-45_____4__****
________4.5_____-43_____6__******
B_______5_______-41_____8__********
________5.5_____-41_____8__********
E_______6_______-41_____8__********
________6.5_____-48_____1__*


Notice the dead spot in between the G and D, but worse still, notice that it drops off directly over the G and D poles, meaning that they are lower in the mix that they should be. Keep in mind this pickup has raised G and D poles, too. To my ears, the emphasis on the B and high E makes for a shrill sounding pickup that is hard to balance. I tried raising the low E side of the pickup, and that added bass, but it still had a rather imbalanced, thin sound when strumming chords.


An interesting fact about this humbucker is that while it has reverse polarity between the two coils, it doesn't have to be that way. All six of the pole pieces can have the same polarity and it will still humbuck. In humbucking configurations, it's only necessary that the two coils be wired in reverse. You only have to have reverse magnets in the string in read twice, as is the case with a PAF, or when you have two pickups activated at the same time.

The problem with having all six pole pieces the same polarity is that you still have a dead spot in between the coils, but now it's for a different reason. There is no longer a magnetic null where the reverse polarity magnets meet, but nevertheless, since the coils are still wired in reverse, when you perform a string bend in between the G and D, both coils are reading the string in equal parts, causing the string itself to be cancelled as if it were noise.

Here is what the output profile looks like when all the magnets have the same polarity:

pole____offset__raw_____adjusted
________0.5_____-40_____2__**
E_______1_______-33_____9__*********
________1.5_____-34_____8__********
A_______2_______-33_____9__*********
________2.5_____-36_____6__******
D_______3_D_____-34_____8__********
________3.5_____-42_____0__
G_______4_G_____-31_____11_***********
________4.5_____-36_____6__******
B_______5_______-30_____12_************
________5.5_____-34_____8__********
E_______6_______-29_____13_*************
________6.5_____-36_____6__******

You can see that, while there is no longer a gradual drop in the middle, there is instead a really sharp drop in between the D and G poles. With this configuration, the pickup did sound a lot better, it sounded balanced, but the problem is, you bend the G string, and is sounds like someone is turning down the volume on your amp as you bend the string. So you get a better tone, but you lose the ability to properly play a song that requires of benefits from bending the G string.

This configuration is the most Strat-like humbucker I've ever heard, and probably ever will hear, due to the physics of the matter, so it's a dang shame you can't bend the G string without having a serious problem. For that reason, I'd say don't buy, although, there are some genres of music where the limitation of the pickup in this mode might not be a problem, such as jazz or maybe neo classical. You might be able to pop the magnets out and turn them around, but I'd recommend using a wide, powerful neodymium instead, that's what I did.

chris_john

I bought and then sold a US Deluxe Strat because I couldn't get that classic Strat tone I was looking for from the noiseless pickups. I'm much happier with my E-series MIJ Squier with CS69 pickups - and Dimarzio tone zone in the bridge. 

ICBM

I've never really liked hum-cancelling 'single coils' - I've always found them thin-sounding and toneless. I actually think some of it may literally be the lack of hum - it modulates the signal in a subtle way and makes it sound more harmonically complex - but some is the loss of the very direct bottom-end punch of a single-coil pickup.

That said I've recently tried a DiMarzio Area 61 as the middle pickup in a Strat-type guitar I specifically wanted for high-gain sounds where a true single would be too noisy, and I think I've changed my mind - it doesn't sound exactly like a single coil, but it does sound good - plenty of thump and no obvious thinness. It wouldn't be quite right for 50s rock'n'roll though.

roberty

I've no experience of them but I always thought G&L had some cool ideas



I guess that's where Leo was heading with the XII. Wonder why it never took off

Greatape

Zexcoils are very good. I have the Vintage Hot set with a hotter bridge. Work with250k pots.

timmypix

My old US Deluxe Strat had the SCN pickups in it and they were fine, but lifeless. To the point where I adored to play the guitar unplugged but really didn't love it plugged in - it didn't sound like the Strat in my head. They were fine, just not for me. Then someone nicked it so that solved that problem!

guitartango

Anyone tried the DG one's ?

axisus

Those G&Ls look horrible! Always hated them

Clecko

Voxman said:

I have a Fender American Deluxe 2004 50th anniversary Strat (a proper one, not just a stock Deluxe with the commemerative 50th neck plate that Fender/dealers put on all the 2004 guitars) that has Bill Lawrence Somarium Cobalt Noiseless pickups wired with S1 switching. They sound terrific and the tone in conventional switch positions sound uncannily close to my original '69 Strat...but without the hum.

Wow, this thread is back from 2014! I had one of the proper 50th anniversary Strats too and always found the tone to be, you know, fine, but then I bought a used Classic Player 60s Strat for a fraction of the price and it sounded like twice the guitar. The 50th Anniversary Strat had to go after that and I've been wary of noiseless SCs ever since! 

sweepy

I had a set of SCN's in one of my Strats, not bad pickups at all tbh, not very "vintage-like" but balanced and dynamic,only selling mine because i want a more vintage tone and my Musicroom is electrically incredibly quiet