Amplifier Mistake (Blackstar)

John_P

Just a thought but if you're talking about anything over 20kg being too heavy.    What happens with the rest of the band gear?   When you gig I assume everyone chips in with carrying the PA and lights etc.  

Are you trying to carry your whole rig from the car to venue / reh room  in one trip?   I think I'm doing really well that I can do it 3 or 4 trips and then there is usually another 5 or 6 trips carrying my share of the PA and lights.

noisepolluter

thomasross20 said:

How many of you actually use distortion and boost pedals then? Sounds like if I relied solely on the amp channels I could just throw away those pedals..

A drive pedal through a valve amp's clean channel will have a different sound to the amp's own drive channel (if it has one). Not necessarily better or worse, just different. Different voice, different texture. More options. More inspiration! You can also combine pedal drive and preamp drive for yet another different sound. You can stack drive and boost pedals. Or you could even try running a completely different preamp into the FX return and use the combo as a power amp. Or all of the above. Or none of the above. 

Any setup you go for is going to have plus points and minus points, and it seems like you're going into a bit of a tailspin any time someone mentions some minor constructional or operational detail of a particular amp.  

You've already gone through a few amps, which you've moved on for a variety of reasons. You're not going to find one without compromises of some sort, and whichever one you do end up with, even if you're certain you've got all the bases covered, you're probably going to encounter a compromise specific to your own situation, which all the reviews, opinions and recommendations you've been reading might not have prepared you for.

What are your main priorities for the amp you're after? 

Are any of those priorities mutually exclusive, and if so, which are you prepared to compromise on?

Could you work around - or simply live with - any of the compromises?

To a certain extent I'm also talking about myself here - I can be a nervous nellie about minor details which with a dose of perspective are easy to live with or work around. 

Danny1969

I think for classic rock, GnR etc amp dirt works way better than pedals as most of that stuff was plexi Marshall and such. Much as pedals into a Fender can sound great for blues I don't think they works as well for classic rock because you need more clarity in the chords than most pedals can give you

I know i bang on about this all the time but the answer for any regular gigging guy doing classic rock  is small valve amp mic'ed. A small amp pushed hard and controlled from your volume pot is ideal

Jalapeno

Check out the weight of the speakers - and if heavy, replace with a neodymium jobs, you'll be surprised how little tone difference there is for such a weight saving. 

MDF ? Avoid - very dense, heavy material.  Good quality spruce or ply cabinet would be a lot lighter.

You could always get the combo chopped into a head + cab.  That also gives you more options - 1x12, 2x10, 2x12, 4x10, 4x12, or swapping the head.  Plus Snakeskin Tolex is an option !    (For what i's worth I use two 1x12s, or a 2x10)

As you're stuck with a private resale now - think about what you could do with what you have first.

Voxman

To clarify, the id260tvp is 24kg or 53lbs. The weight of 29kg you saw is the shipping weight which includes all the packaging and enclosed manual and other literature.

So it's actually not too bad. Its slap bang in-between the 48lbs each for both my Marshall DSL401 and Laney VC30-210, and the 58lbs of my Valvetronix AD120VTX. Even the matching AD212 2x12 extn cab is around 42lbs so its not light either. And that's with Neodymium speakers in both the AD120VTX and AD212!

Cacofonix

thomasross20 said:

How many of you actually use distortion and boost pedals then? Sounds like if I relied solely on the amp channels I could just throw away those pedals..

Mdf .  It's more the longevity I worry about, but given the choice I'd go for ply instead.

If you use a valve od pedal you get the best of both worlds, imho.  My favourite is the okko mod tube factor.  IIRC ICBM prefers the mesa V-twin.

Owen pedals do the space charge.  I have one but haven't taken it out for a while so don't know what it's like through the new amp. Might have a go later today.

ICBM

Jalapeno said:

Check out the weight of the speaker - and if heavy, replace it with a neodymium job, you'll be surprised how little tone difference there is for such a weight saving.

I found exactly the opposite. Much less good tone and not really that much of a weight saving.

In order for the lower weight of a neodymium speaker to make a substantial difference to the weight of the amp, the amp can't be heavy in the first place. You can save a maximum of 6-7lbs by going from a heavy ceramic speaker to a neo (assuming the original isn't an EV or something), so unless the amp is under 50lbs in the first place it's still going to be over 40.

It might be an option for a 2x12" amp that only weighs 29Kg though - with neos it could weigh as little as about 23, depending on how heavy the originals are.

The problem would be to get some which both are 4 ohms - or sufficiently more sensitive that you can get away with 8 ohms - and sound good for guitar - I'd guess most 4-ohm drivers available will be for bass or PA.

Jalapeno

@ICBM ; - I found splitting my Boogie combo Amp & Speakers was enough of a weight saving - so still have the monster EV Black Shadows as two 1x12s - but now they're both in light and robust Spruce cabs.

Evilmags

The thing with weight is that one of the major components in the amp, the transformers, need to be heavy duty. I have two 15 watt valve amps, one a Blackstar Artisan and the other a Laney VC 15. The most notable component difference is the size of transformer. The blackstar has a much nicer tone, is louder and generally superior in every way. Use a Blackstar HT dual for valve drives and an OCD and TS 9 to push the amp. Plenty of drive variations in there

ecc83

ICBM beat me to it but there is not the flexibility re separate speakers with the ID as with valve amps with transformer taps*.

IC has been kind enough to say that the ID amps do not sound at all bad considering,

1) They are Sstate

2) They are "modellers" (for want of a lot more words!)

3 The are Blackstars!

I do not think I am being disloyal in absentia when I say that the 4R speakers are not THE best units around and I am fairly sure the amps are "voiced" to improve this  a bit.

But then ARE there any really good 4 Ohm guitar speakers (at sensible cost here)?

*Must ask if the amps would be safe on a high power auto transformer.

Dave.

thomasross20

Haven't read the latest replies yet but I was in guitarguitar today and lifted the ID260 vs the ID60 and the ID60 was on the verge of what I'd be willing to lift. Just acceptable - 20kg or so. 

The little Mesage & Kettner heads were pretty cool... but the BIG heads could still weight quite a lot.

Voxman

Have a listen to the 1x12 Fender Mustang III v2. Its 100w isn't valve 100w but its still very loud, sounds pretty good, and at 36lbs is very light. Ditto the Vox Valvetronix VT80+ even lighter at 31lbs and its a little louder. You might be very pleasantly surprised by both of them re tone and volume.

thomasross20

Will check them out!!

ICBM

ecc83 said:

I do not think I am being disloyal in absentia when I say that the 4R speakers are not THE best units around and I am fairly sure the amps are "voiced" to improve this  a bit.

But then ARE there any really good 4 Ohm guitar speakers (at sensible cost here)?

You can get 4-ohm guitar speakers that sound good, but they seem not to often be available on the open market. Trace Elliot used custom order 4-ohm V30s in some of their solid-state amps in the 90s, and there have been others. They are not easy to find as a non-trade buyer though.

It only really matters for a 1x12" obviously, since otherwise you just use two 8s.

I would definitely agree that the amps might have been voiced for a particular cheap speaker given my experience. It almost certainly means they won't sound good with deep/bright speakers like the G12T-75, but I would think probably still good with V30s - and the extra sensitivity would mean that running at 8 ohms shouldn't matter. If the stock speakers are no more than 97dB the loss of power won't make any difference.

ecc83 said:

*Must ask if the amps would be safe on a high power auto transformer.

Given what you said about testing them into a pretty severe inductive load, I'd be inclined to say yes.

I admit to being brave/reckless with a lot of solid-state amps and testing them with a Marshall Powerbrake, which is highly *not* recommended normally! As you may know it's an auto-transformer coupled attenuator, and is extremely inductive, and with a very low DC resistance. Still - and admittedly with precautions on bench test - I have not killed any amps with it yet. The logic is that it's not a lot worse than some speakers, and hence if the amp will survive the Powebrake it's fit for use with speakers!

Obviously an "ID MkII" with an output transformer would be a bit more expensive, but I also wonder if it wouldn't also sound even more valve-like…

Moe_Zambeek

How are you lifting / carrying your amp? If you carry it by the top handle at your side you'll get a bad back. Have you tried carrying it two-handed in front of you? Use the top handle to lift it up onto your knee / Thigh, then carry with one hand on the lower front corner, the other directly opposite or further up the baffle?

Your combo weighs a couple of pounds more than my Matchless head, I'd consider that reasonable for gigging. I would not however be carrying it to every rehearsal...

I use the backline in the rehearsal room, whatever it might be; practice should in the main be hassle free IMO. Couldn't be bothered schlepping an amp twice a week to a place that already had some.

To be fair I hate heavy amps too but my experience suggests that weight is in many cases directly related to sonic quality (transformers mainly).

thomasross20

It's a little (only a little lol) easier carrying it with both hands but I admit when I carried it up several flights of stairs, I carried it in one hand while I held the trolley in the other. 

Earlier comment about the ID260 weighing 24kg, and the packaging making the extra 5kg - surely not!? 

Voxman

thomasross20;445075" said:

It's a little (only a little lol) easier carrying it with both hands but I admit when I carried it up several flights of stairs, I carried it in one hand while I held the trolley in the other. 

Earlier comment about the ID260 weighing 24kg, and the packaging making the extra 5kg - surely not!? 

Those are the official figs straight from Blackstar. The 29kg fig includes all the enclosed cables and might perhaps be generous reflecting possible variations in package materials used. It could also just be wrong. But I agree it seems too high. You could always try weighing the amp yourself if you doubt the stated 24kg quoted by them. I must admit I thought my dsl401 was heavier than it was. But when I weighed it, the specs were spot on.

Lew

Ok

Grow a beard and play folk.

Sell a PRS and buy an AxeFx.

Pay £40 a month for a Gym. Make friends with a weight lifter who likes your band.

Deal with it.

impmann

It never ceases to amaze me the attitude of guitarists toward this very real problem...

"Man up"

"Deal with it"

etc etc etc

Obviously sympathy and empathy are two traits that are bypassed when some learn to play.

As someone with a back injury that cannot be cured by going to a Gym or any other half-arsed suggestion (or surgery for that matter), lunking a heavy guitar amp around isn't something I can do any more. In fact, I had to sell my Les Pauls and other heavy guitars too - as I just could not stand with them any longer than about 15mins without being in great pain for sometime afterwards. That has nothing to do with "dealing with it" or being a "man" - that is a physicality.

I gig a Hot Rod Deluxe and struggle with it sometimes - its a great sounding amp, and to answer one of the questions from above its more than loud enough to cope with a VERY loud, splashy drummer and an equally loud 2nd guitarist and a bass player with a wattage infatuation...

I also have gigged a ZT lunchbox. This is a super lightweight, tiny amp - and I love it for small gigs. However, unless you play with drive pedals it may not be for you - the on board overdrive is a bit... er, well, I don't like it. I use the amp with the DI out going into the PA (waits for usual howls from the usual people about how this "always sounds bad"... it doesn't) and in fact, the rest of the band prefer it when we do this as we get a clearer on stage sound (less spillage on stage, less volume on stage etc etc).

If you don't want to use the DI route, buy a lightweight 1x12in cab (talk to Zilla or similar) and use the output from the ZT... its a 200w amp, so should be loud enough. ;-)

ThePrettyDamned

@impmann totally agree, I used to be like that but I've worked on neurosurgery too long for me to ignore back problems in anyone of any age!

I do think the id head and a cab is the best bet. And you have band mates - fit a handle on each side and carry it as a pair.

Or get a 4x12. Not so great for stairs, but a 4x12 with casters is really easy to move around, as long as you have an extra pair of hands to get it in and out the van. But I don't think that's what you want!