Patrick Eggle

shaunm

Hi all does anyone know much about Patrick Eggle guitars? I've been offered a Berlin Pro and I don't know a lot about them. If anyone can shed any light that would be fantastic.

shaunm

It is indeed an early 90's one. 93 I believe

Iamnobody

Never heard anything bad about the early Berlins. Later ones seem overpriced. Buy early 90's models is the general school of thought.

The key would be the price. If you can pick one up for less than £600 you will have done well.

Good luck!

Emiel

I have played a Berlin Pro about a year ago. Came with Seymour Duncan pickups, really nice high quality guitar that are pretty cheap second hand! 

shaunm

Ah, the one I've been offered has been priced around £800. Would that be too much to pay?

TTony

shaunm said:

Ah, the one I've been offered has been priced around £800. Would that be too much to pay?

I'd wait for @revmatt to drop by and give an opinion ...

Iamnobody

shaunm;472545" said:

Ah, the one I've been offered has been priced around £800. Would that be too much to pay?

I think that's on the high side myself.

It depends. Is it a particularly rare colour, is it in very good/excellent condition, has it been upgraded etc.

Does it come with the branded hard case and most important (for resale should you need) check it is a 90's.

drwiddly

The 90's ones have gone up in value over the last year or so. £800 for a good condition Berlin Pro is about right now. I've seen Los Angeles models from the same period going for around £700.

Mind you, they're very good guitars (I owned 8 at one time but cut down to 5 now!) and you'd have a hard time getting something of equivalent quality for that sort of money.

bigjon

I have a 1993 Berlin Pro, fantastic guitar. The rotary pickup-selector and no tone control takes some getting used to. Mine was just over £500 with a big belt scratch on the back and a missing part which means the Wilkinson Trem doesn't work.
http://i1136.photobucket.com/albums/n498/bigjon1684/gtrs2013no3resized.jpg

Iamnobody

drwiddly;472622" said:

The 90's ones have gone up in value over the last year or so. £800 for a good condition Berlin Pro is about right now. I've seen Los Angeles models from the same period going for around £700.

Mind you, they're very good guitars (I owned 8 at one time but cut down to 5 now!) and you'd have a hard time getting something of equivalent quality for that sort of money.

The last five sold prices on EBay were sub £700 and some sub £600.

I'll stick by £800 being on the high side.

Of course if it's the exact one you want and up at £800 it's probably worth it to you.

If you want an Eggle Berlin wait it out and you will pay less.

xHymnal

They're tidy well made guitars and I'd agree, £800 is on the high side for a Berlin pro, unless it's in mint condition with original case etc. I sold mine for £600 which was market value about 3 years ago and I doubt it's increased much, and mine was a lovely example of one. They play well but one thing to be aware of is that they have very small bodies, they feel a bit "too" small if you're used to standard Gibson and fender sizes.

Parker

It does depend on the model and condition. If it's a Pro T (Trem) then £650-700 for one in good nick is about right. If it's a Stage then nearer £500. Deluxe or Elite between £700-1000. If you pay £800, it's top heavy, but not shocking. They have gone for that.

Fuzzdog

I gigged an early Berlin Pro for a few years - lovely guitar, one of my favourites.  It always felt a bit smaller than I'd like, but sounded great.  The early ones are definitely the ones to go for, sometime in the mid 90's the quality plummeted.  I looked at buying another Berlin around that time, and it didn't even feel like the same guitar.

The Wilkinson Convertible trem is a bit of an oddity if it's the trem version - can work very well if set up perfectly, but anything less than perfect is a bloody nightmare.  I still have that trem in the spares drawer after I swapped it out for the standard version. )

I'd buy another, but not at the silly prices some are asking.

xmrchi

Judging by revmats discussions  you may be waiting a while for him to return, as he is seller on here etc and only comes on to sell, (not a prob with that just saying you my want to find someone else who knows the eggle

maltingsaudio

Criminally under rated guitars in my opinion fall into the same bracket as musicman. If its a 93 its from the period when Patrick was almost in control and provided its got no obvious major problems and has the gloss finish, they didn't do the satin finish till later, worth the money. If it doesn't have the volute under the nut it is one of the very original production ones.

I have one of the original production batch, which I got from new as I was one of the original dealers for Eggle when I had my shop and wouldn't part with it and have turned down serious money for it.

Parker

Generally the 'average' spec is ebony boards, Sperzel machines, AAA maple tops and decent hardware and pickups. Patrick is going back to building electrics with the Macon model. They are basic, but very special - my mate bought two. Sadly I can't afford one - they're £3k!!!

drwiddly

Apologies to @Iamnobody, having done a bit more checking, the going rate is £650 - £700, though you may pay more for a really nice one.
The spec above is correct and I'd add they have a mahogany body with a set mahogany neck with a two piece maple top. Pick ups on the early and late 90's guitars were Seymour Duncan with Kent Armstrongs used for the interim. A '93 model would normally have KA's. As others have said the Wilkinson VS100CV trem isn't the easiest to set up but works well when it's done right. Personally, I prefer a floating trem so I've replaced the arms on mine with Floyds Rose spares which, with the addition of a 9mm nylon washer, fit perfectly.

RevMatt

@shaunm I'm happy to offer info and advice if that's any help, though Dr Widdly and Parker are also very experienced with PEGs as well, so I'm not claiming any special knowledge here - I guess I've just owned more than a few....  ;-)

Discussion around prices is difficult with only limited information to go on. Berlin prices vary hugely - partly that can sometimes be nothing more than the timing of the sale and the awareness of the seller regarding the collectability of the brand. But it can also be down to a range of other factors:

1) spec: there are a range of different Berlin models available from the basic Stage to the high end Deluxe, but even within each model there are variations in spec which makes certain guitars more appealing than others

2) age: rightly or wrongly some people have preferences around particular eras of build - there can be a preference for models from the early 90s due to that being the period when Patrick was still involved in the company, although I've owned a good few mid 90s guitars and the quality is always exceptional

3) condition: not a lot more to say except the obvious - the better the condition the higher the price

4) inclusions: an original Eggle case will always add value and any supporting paperwork will make a guitar more appealing, though not necessarily add value. Where the trem is concerned, it's important to make sure it's complete - a seemingly simple thing like a missing trem are can become a very expensive thing - the sprung trem arm that fits the VS100c unit will cost around £100 to replace!!!

So, all in all, £800 could be a good price or it could be a high price depending on those factors. If you can supply the serial number and if possible some pictures I'm sure we can offer some more thoughts.

Here's my '95 Berlin Pro Elite (Elite = gold hardware, scraped edge binding, falling leaves, cherry back) - I suspect this would sell for £850-900 if I was selling (which I'm not):

http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa356/revmatt1/P1020648_zps622a8502.jpg 

This is my '96 Berlin Vintage Classic which I bought as new old stock about 8 years ago, then sold to @drwiddly and then bought back from him last year for £900 and worth every penny.

http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa356/revmatt1/BerlinVintageClassicBody1_zpsa7ccbff5.jpg 

RevMatt

@bigjon - if the missing bit from your Wilkinson trem is the small metal collar that the tip of the arm locates into in order to lock, Trev Wilkinson can still supply these.

AuldReekie

drwiddly said:

Apologies to @Iamnobody, having done a bit more checking, the going rate is £650 - £700, though you may pay more for a really nice one.
The spec above is correct and I'd add they have a mahogany body with a set mahogany neck with a two piece maple top. Pick ups on the early and late 90's guitars were Seymour Duncan with Kent Armstrongs used for the interim. A '93 model would normally have KA's. As others have said the Wilkinson VS100CV trem isn't the easiest to set up but works well when it's done right. Personally, I prefer a floating trem so I've replaced the arms on mine with Floyds Rose spares which, with the addition of a 9mm nylon washer, fit perfectly.

My Berlin Pro is from Feb 92 and has SD p/ups - Jazz at the neck and Custom Custom at the bridge

RevMatt

AuldReekie;472981" said:

My Berlin Pro is from Feb 92 and has SD p/ups - Jazz at the neck and Custom Custom at the bridge

That's normal for a 1992 guitar but by '93 they'd switched to Kent Armstrong pickups. Around 1995 the company returned to Seymour Duncan pups on the higher spec models and continued with KAs on the lower spec models.