Song sheets

hywelg

Since my band has folded and it looks like the end of the line for my gigging ambitions it occurred to me that over the last 8 years or so I have learnt quite a lot of songs. I was the one who (with a few exceptions) wrote out the song sheets (chords, lyrics, structure only) so we all knew what we had to do and when and it was quite a lot of work some of the time to make sure it was right since there are so many 'wrong' versions on the internet.

So anyone think its worth pooling these to make life easier for everyone when learning new stuff.? I'd be happy to share mine Here's a few.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/x5eem5xzw6m6i0w/AAArkGsg2Sd3u7btPLc0NtgYa?dl=0

not_the_dj

Good idea. Mine are a collection of scribbles in various old folders, not quite as organised as you!

Phil_aka_Pip

Just looked at HighWay To Hell.

IMO these are all worthless without bar lines. Just putting "G D A" on the end of a lyric line tells you nothing, unless you already know the song, in which case you don't need the lyric sheet.

My bandleader gives me stuff like this and then the bass player had to go though it with me adding barlines to make it readable.

Only the singer needs the lyric. Everyone else just needs a definition of the intro, the verse, the chorus, the middle 8, the outro, in terms of the number of bars and where the changes are, and an overall layout.

Roland

Only last week I was thinking about this. I've got hundreds of the things. I'm sure there are copyright issues about posting them online, but we could certainly pass around "personal study" copies. How about setting up an index of who has got what?

D28boy

I think it's a great idea

hywelg

Phil_aka_Pip said:

Just looked at HighWay To Hell.

IMO these are all worthless without bar lines.

No need to be rude, you can always ignore them.

And you are plain wrong. No-one would start to learn Highway to Hell with a tab sheet and bar lines. You'd start to learn it by listening. And once its in your head you dont need bar lines.

EricTheWeary

The lyric and chord name format is pretty common. You can't sight read from it but that plus the original recording give you a pretty good road map.
I occaisionaly visit tdpri and they put up quite a few tabs on there, although often partial ones ( does anybody know how to play the intro to {##%** by ]{#%^ kind of thing). My impression is that we have tended to be slightly snottier about these things on here. 'Just use your ears' is so often not the answer someone was looking for.
So, I'm in support of the OP

hywelg

Sometimes it is necessary to specify bar counts for difficult timings but it doesn't happen often. The point of these is not to teach someone how to play a song, its how to play it with the rest of the band. You need to know your part. If you dont, go and listen to it, come back when you know it.

And you'd be surprised how often you rely on vocal cues for the changes, I know I do. And how often you need to have counted the number of repeats of a particular sequence, well if one band member has already done that and written it down then theres no argument.

And tabs are useless for a drummer, and a singer and a keyboardist.

Phil_aka_Pip

hywelg said:

Phil_aka_Pip said:

Just looked at HighWay To Hell.

IMO these are all worthless without bar lines.

No need to be rude, you can always ignore them.

And you are plain wrong. No-one would start to learn Highway to Hell with a tab sheet and bar lines. You'd start to learn it by listening. And once its in your head you dont need bar lines.

I wasn't trying to be rude, but I admit to being blunt. All I ask is for something I can read. Lyrics + chord symbols does not fit that spec.

EDIT I wouldn't try to learn anything with TAB (spit). I can't read it. But even if you can't be arsed to give me proper dots the least you can do is put some barlines in.

kin

@hywelg , thanks very much for that,  personally I would find your idea very useful.

hywelg

Phil_aka_Pip said:

 But even if you can't be arsed to give me proper dots the least you can do is put some barlines in.

Funnily enough  I didn't do 'em for you.....

Do your own counting

Phil_aka_Pip

hywelg said:

Phil_aka_Pip said:

 But even if you can't be arsed to give me proper dots the least you can do is put some barlines in.

Funnily enough  I didn't do 'em for you.....

Do your own counting

S'cuse me but don't you think it's a bit uncool to expect a musician to play for you without you being able to say what you want them to play and when?

I got this a lot with people in the "folk" scene. They give you a lyric sheet with chord symbols above syllables for music you've never heard before and expect you to play it. They don't know what a proper chord chart is. Neither does my bandleader apparently. When you're playing blues or music closely related to it, it's fine if the front man turns round and says "Its a medium tempo 8-bar in Bb" that's all he needs to tell you; for other stuff I don't mind "following" - but if I'm expected to play fills it doesn't half help to know whether the next vocal phrase comes in after the next barline or the next barline after that - that last thing he'll thank me for is playing a 2-bar fill when he want to start his next vocal phrase.

I insist - you have to give a man something that's readable!!

close2u

Well I think the idea is a good one.

If people share their 'correct' song sheets that's fab.

If they can be improved upon and made even better then re-shared ... even more fab.

hywelg

Phil_aka_Pip said:

S'cuse me but don't you think it's a bit uncool to expect a musician to play for you without you being able to say what you want them to play and when?

This is bordeline trolling. So you dont like the song sheets I did for my band?

Then dont use them.!!

Its quite obvious that these are for well known songs, songs that a covers band would play. No one is going to approach these songs from a standpoint 'no never heard it how does it go?'. Not in an organised covers band anyway. And in a open mic situation you just wouldn't get up to play a song you'd never heard now would you?

If you came for an audition for any band that I was in with that attitude you'd be out the door within 30seconds.

Phil_aka_Pip

@hywelg I won't! They're USELESS!!!!

There are so many covers you can't be expected to know them all, or even have listened to them.

You can be bothered to write down lyrics, you can be bothered to write the chord symbols so what's wrong with doing the job properly and putting the basic timing information down?*

In open mic situations, playing songs you've never heard is de rigeur.

And as far as "your band" is concerned, I wouldn't be even approaching the door from the outside if I knew anything about your attitude, there would be no question of leaving from the inside.

*Probably because you don't know how to?

RocknRollDave

IMO, @Phil_aka_Pip, you are missing the point completely of @hywelg's sheets.

They are not sight-reading sheets to play blind from, they are an additional aid to people who are learning the songs in advance of playing them. In my experience, when combined with, ya know, actually listening to the records and learning your parts, these sheets are perfectly sufficient.

I actually find a sheet with just the lyrics on - no chord names, dots or any other musical notation - can be very useful too, just in reminding you of the structure of the song and where you are in it, especially with songs where they do things like having two verses then a chorus the first time, but the second time it's only one verse, then a bridge, THEN the chorus etc etc...Easy to learn all the parts by rote, easy to get lost when playing them live.

hywelg

OK @Phil_aka_Pip. TROLL......

Phil_aka_Pip

@RocknRollDave, Your explanation makes some kind of sense in the first para, except that I have to admit that counting out the bars of each component (verse chorus etc) is probably the first thing I'd do and getting a handle on the song structure is the second. The words would not even enter the consideration. The most that a lyric sheet could do is to help identify which components the song has (eg a breakdown as well as a middle 8). It's still not a lot of use.

@hywelg, insults time is it? P!ssed off because I called into question your "song documentation"? OK I can accept @RocknRollDave's argument that the sheets are not intended for sight-reading - although I still say that with sufficient effort being put in they could be, and for that reason could be so much more useful.

TTony

Phil_aka_Pip said:

@hywelg, insults time is it? P!ssed off because I called into question your "song documentation"? OK I can accept @RocknRollDave's argument that the sheets are not intended for sight-reading - although I still say that with sufficient effort being put in they could be, and for that reason could be so much more useful.

Calm down, calm down, calm down.

Seems to me that @hywelg made a suggestion that's got some value/interest for some people, and not for other/s.  OK, so there are limitations to the song-sheet format, but there are also limitations to the "proper" music notation format - particularly for those that don't sight-read music.

So, for those that are interested in song sheets, please carry on.  For those that aren't, please move on.

hywelg

Phil_aka_Pip said:

@hywelg, insults time is it? P!ssed off because I called into question your "song documentation"? OK I can accept

Not an insult, just calling you out on what you've been doing. Acting like a prima donna muso, for whom, anything less than their own definition of perfection is not worthy of their attention.

The adult thing to do would have been to say, 'I'd prefer this that and whatever, so they're not much use to me, but by all means carry on' , instead you have to deride my efforts and proceed to attempt to derail the thread. Says more about you than the song sheets.

Phil_aka_Pip

The way I phrased my comments is of far less relevance than than the notion that with timing information the song sheets could be so much more useful. Try looking up "Lead sheet" or even "chord chart" on wikipedia. However I shall not be making any further comment.