The cricket thread

pigface

Until about 30 minutes ago, the BBC website had a 'live reaction to the Test cancellation' page. Then it disappeared. Wonder why?

Nitefly

pigface said:

Until about 30 minutes ago, the BBC website had a 'live reaction to the Test cancellation' page. Then it disappeared. Wonder why?

It's still there, but now closed:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/live/cricket/55023939

pigface

Nitefly said:

pigface said:

Until about 30 minutes ago, the BBC website had a 'live reaction to the Test cancellation' page. Then it disappeared. Wonder why?

It's still there, but now closed:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/live/cricket/55023939

Ah, thanks. I couldn't find it at all.

Edit: OK, found it under 'England Men'.

Stuckfast

Gutted, I had tickets for Sunday.

sixstringsupplies

crunchman said:

Match cancelled, and probably Root's chance of breaking Yousuf's record for runs in a calendar year with it.

He'll be fine! He needs what...350 runs or so in 3 tests in Australia? If he doesn't get there, we'll already be 3-0 down in the Ashes before the year is through.

Though of course, he could get a hundred or so in each match and England could still be 3-0 down

I'm a little bit surprised about what happened today. I can't believe that somebody as combative and emotionally invested in winning a test series in England as Virat Kohli would walk away. Even if it is declared a 2-1 series India win, it must leave a slight sour taste. There must be more to the story that the media have not got wind of yet.

sixstringsupplies

PS - my mates had just boarded the train this morning on the way up to Old Trafford when the game was called off. Shambles

Heartfeltdawn

sixstringsupplies said:

I'm a little bit surprised about what happened today. I can't believe that somebody as combative and emotionally invested in winning a test series in England as Virat Kohli would walk away. Even if it is declared a 2-1 series India win, it must leave a slight sour taste. There must be more to the story that the media have not got wind of yet.

Simple: imagine an IPL restarting on September 19th that doesn't have a load of its major Indian stars. Once the Covid count in the Indian camp went up, considerations there had to be made and remember England left South Africa in the winter when fewer Covid positive tests came back. 

This is why people should look back at what happened with the women's Test. It was announced by the BCCI, it was shoehorned into the English domestic schedule, and the hooha over the women having to play on a slightly used wicket that turned out to be bloody perfect for the women's game totally overshadowed the reality, namely that the BCCI wanted a Test and would have pulled their players out of the Hundred had the ECB not said yes. Absolutely no way would the BCCI let these Covid cases potentially threaten their tournament in any way. 

sixstringsupplies

Heartfeltdawn said:

sixstringsupplies said:

I'm a little bit surprised about what happened today. I can't believe that somebody as combative and emotionally invested in winning a test series in England as Virat Kohli would walk away. Even if it is declared a 2-1 series India win, it must leave a slight sour taste. There must be more to the story that the media have not got wind of yet.

Simple: imagine an IPL restarting on September 19th that doesn't have a load of its major Indian stars. 

Of course, the IPL is a huge factor here. Tom Harrison coming out and denying it was a bit embarassing.

But given Kohli seems to be the appointed poster boy of Test Cricket, I wonder how he is currently feeling. I notice no players from either team have spoken out...yet. His whole legacy as a captain was to win a test series in England. I bet he is fuming.

I suspect the series will be awarded to India (they were the better team I suppose) but it will always have that little asterix in the history books as "final match abandoned" with the old conundrum of never knowing the result....England more than capable of winning the final test. Also more than capable of getting pummelled. 

UnclePsychosis

I see that British cricketing media has an incredibly short memory...

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/cricket/2020/12/07/englands-tour-ofsouthafrica-abandoned-due-concerns-covid-19/

Teetonetal

Can't help but feel this was the right call and India should be declared series winners.

It's only sport... Move on to the next one.

sev112

Zeta a very dangerous precedent for the future , that anyone in the lead declares their mental health to be a concern (as is apparently the reason for not playing today) 

I was interested in the talk sport commentator who was put on the spot this afternoon , and he said that he had lots of empathy and in general he was siding with the Indian players who were concerned about their families; but then went on to say that if IPL wasn’t being played, then there would be a test going on today 

scrumhalf

I'm not sure you can say that the test was abandoned when it never started, abandoning suggests leaving something that exists and the test never existed as a competitive game.

Despite the cricketing world now dancing to India's tune it will be interesting to see how this is resolved. The test must either be played at a later date or awarded to England or else it may set a precedent allowing teams that are one up with one to play in a series to manufacture a reason to postpone the final test.

I read somewhere that it was on the cards that this might happen as the fourth test was played at the Oval and the final test of a long series is traditionally played there. Fanciful? Maybe. 

Heartfeltdawn

sixstringsupplies said:

Of course, the IPL is a huge factor here. Tom Harrison coming out and denying it was a bit embarassing.

But given Kohli seems to be the appointed poster boy of Test Cricket, I wonder how he is currently feeling. I notice no players from either team have spoken out...yet. His whole legacy as a captain was to win a test series in England. I bet he is fuming.

I suspect the series will be awarded to India (they were the better team I suppose) but it will always have that little asterix in the history books as "final match abandoned" with the old conundrum of never knowing the result....England more than capable of winning the final test. Also more than capable of getting pummelled. 

Both sides have shut up because this is nothing to do with them. They've got little power and little say in it. This is about two country boards, one with far more wealth and power than the other. 

Remember the ICL? The ICC ruled that it was not kosher and that the IPL was by virtue of being classified as being a domestic tournament. End result: the IPL survived, the ICL didn't and some players had their international careers affected through ICC weakness. At the time I said on the old BBC 606 service that it was utterly ridiculous to classify the IPL as a domestic tournament and was more than mildly rebuked. Here's the outcome of that, a situation where the needs of a "domestic tournament" have overtaken the needs of an international series. The players might feel shit but most of these guys have taken IPL money at some point. You might get the former vice captain of England saying he's disappointed about it but Moeen not so long back reacted to losing his Test contract by announcing a Test break so he could play more white ball franchise cricket ie. he put white ball needs ahead of Test needs. The ECB can whine all they like but they put Hundred needs above everything else so they could try to spin off their shitty version of the game and hope to sell the rights to that in order to compete with the BCCI. Tom Harrison can't really moan at the BCCI for being gits when he's been flicking two fingers up at the English domestic game. 

Fact is, we are at a point now where the game domestically and internationally is an absolute fucking disaster. The scheduling is lousy. The Ashes are in danger. The domestic game is fucked. We have a stupid format rammed in. We have no coherence in selection. We have players struggling mentally after Covid bubble life. Two years on from the World Cup win that was meant to spark a new era in English cricket, the ECB have turned domestic 50 over cricket into a 2nd XI competition, have shat on the four-day game and harmed our Test side, have pushed the domestic T20 aside just ahead of a World T20 tournament that we have a genuine chance of winning, launched a pointless new format, and have demonstrated twice this year how the BCCI can whip them about.   

Tom Harrison should be dragged into the middle of Trent Bridge, stripped, and be forced to undergo a long colonoscopy using only Stumpcam and ball tracking. 

scrumhalf

Heartfeltdawn said:

Fact is, we are at a point now where the game domestically and internationally is an absolute fucking disaster. The scheduling is lousy. The Ashes are in danger. The domestic game is fucked. We have a stupid format rammed in. We have no coherence in selection. We have players struggling mentally after Covid bubble life. Two years on from the World Cup win that was meant to spark a new era in English cricket, the ECB have turned domestic 50 over cricket into a 2nd XI competition, have shat on the four-day game and harmed our Test side, have pushed the domestic T20 aside just ahead of a World T20 tournament that we have a genuine chance of winning, launched a pointless new format, and have demonstrated twice this year how the BCCI can whip them about.   

Sadly true. If English domestic cricket was a person, the police would have been called in by now to investigate the abuse it has suffered.

I can, to an extent, appreciate that the loss of spectator income during covid has meant that the ECB are scrambling around for cash, and that the Hundred (pauses to spit) has helped, but we need a coherent strategy for the medium term. And if a lack of income means that players can't be paid at their current rates then that needs to be reflected in contracts which calculate the huge amounts being paid to the incomes being generated.

Unless, of course, the whole thing is being skillfully managed to arrive at an eight-team first-class franchise system.

Heartfeltdawn

scrumhalf said:

Sadly true. If English domestic cricket was a person, the police would have been called in by now to investigate the abuse it has suffered.

I can, to an extent, appreciate that the loss of spectator income during covid has meant that the ECB are scrambling around for cash, and that the Hundred (pauses to spit) has helped, but we need a coherent strategy for the medium term. And if a lack of income means that players can't be paid at their current rates then that needs to be reflected in contracts which calculate the huge amounts being paid to the incomes being generated.

Unless, of course, the whole thing is being skillfully managed to arrive at an eight-team first-class franchise system.

Still looking for firm evidence. George Dobell's piece last year said profits on paper were down to accounting practices. 

https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/explainer-will-the-hundred-make-a-profit-1222261

Also pertinent to remember that the BBL saw loses for the majority of teams in the first two seasons:

Despite the popularity of the BBL, just one team, Melbourne Stars, turned a profit in the first season, and the combined team losses amounted to $1.85 million, with CA itself losing $10 million. McKenna was unperturbed by the financial troubles, however, saying that "based on results from the opening season, we're confident this investment is a worthwhile one. Any loss needs to be viewed in the context of the significant investment needed to launch a new league and contains a proportion of expenses that relate to establishment costs."

In the second season, despite projections that five teams would make a profit, only two actually did. But these figures, CA maintained, were to be expected. It was the nature of the long-term investment. CA pointed to the imminent broadcasting deal as the endgame for the league's start-up costs.

Sanjay Patel says the Hundred will make a profit. Yeah yeah. 

And if you really want to vomit, then the Colin Graves piece in City AM earlier this year is the one that'll make you chuck. Private investment into sport, CVC, all the usual. It's pretty shitty. That's the direction he started and that's the direction we will continue to go in. The counties have their hands tied and the players will keep on going where the money is with occasional bouts of tears when something like this Test being cancelled happens. Until you get people standing up and complaining, and some of the players really do have to have the balls to stand up and shout, nothing will change. 

https://www.cityam.com/former-england-cricket-chief-colin-graves-i-know-indian-investment-in-the-hundred-is-there-if-the-doors-are-opened/

Stuckfast

@Heartfeltdawn genuine question -- if you were running the ECB what would your long-term strategy be?

Heartfeltdawn

Stuckfast said:

@Heartfeltdawn genuine question -- if you were running the ECB what would your long-term strategy be?

The very first step: return cricket in this country to one where it lives within its financial means.

The top-down approach started in the 2000s and the wages started to spiral. The Ashes win and the Sky deal bloated this further and county salaries, which were crap in the 1990s went boomshanka and went the other way. Start of the 90s, Somerset's playing budget was around £300,000. Have a gander at these figures collated on someone's blog (cricket finances are seldom clear and easy to find out)

http://sideoncricket.blogspot.com/2019/11/county-championship-salary-cap.html

There has to be some recognition that chasing the cash has made English cricket look fucking ridiculous. We ran after Stanford's millions and looked stupid: we made our county sides bid against one another for international games and nearly bankrupted some and had to rely on the taxpayer to bail out Hampshire and Glamorgan: we chased the Sky money and cut off a generation from watching live cricket on telly at a time when cricket was as high profile in the media as can be: we launch a new format whilst fucking over our existing successful ones. Post-Covid we can't be spending like we used to.

I don't think this top-down approach has done anything good for English cricket. I'm critical of the women's game for the way they've introduced contracts and how money is spent on overseas players whilst the domestic women's game is so poorly funded. Australia are the best women's team out there because they've done it differently and tried to put more funding into the domestic levels of the game in order to have the knock-on effect higher up the pyramid. Over here, we seem to have the attitude of "Look, women on contracts for money! Hurrah!" whilst paying absolute lip service to the domestic women's game. 

And as the salaries for the top people went up, so the ticket prices did too. It's fucking galling to have the like of Harrison and Patel talk about T'Hundred bringing in new people who have never been to a major match before. Of course they fucking haven't when a Day 1 Ashes ticket at Lords is £150. Lots of you guys have been to England games recently, you know the prices. When Hundred tickets were going out free in some cases, discounted in others, but all in the cheap category, of course you'll get new people. The ECB makes itself look shit by whining about a lack of diversity at international games when part of the reason for that lack of diversity is the price of those same games, a price the ECB has never seen fit to change in any way. 

Some of this bloat goes down to youth levels. My county days saw us paying for our jumpers and ties and for accommodation costs. That was shit but the flip side to me is seeing youth sides going over to Sri Lanka and Abu Dhabi for matches with ECB grant money. When the club game is dying in my county and the main training facility has been dumped in a large private school with a corresponding increase in privately educated players whilst the state school players are ignored or find their chances reduced, then something is absolutely wrong with this system. 

There's something wrong when counties were told to sort out their finances, have made huge strides to increase their commercial approach, and most have done this well, and the governing body then fucks over those counties with a stupid cricket format. When a club like Somerset is run well, has good finances, a good supporter base, has hosted international games for men and women, and is still dumped out by that same format, then the ECB make the backers of the European Super League footie look like saints. 

Now my approach isn't what the ECB are doing. I wouldn't be chasing after Indian money like Colin Graves wants or Sanjay Patel dreams about. And quite honestly for all my spouting, the thing I feel saddest about is seeing the club game back here in Yokelshire. as Iv'e said before, my first league club at the start of the 90s ran 4 sides on a Saturday and the other club in the town ran 2. Now the other club is dead and my old side have struggled to make 2 sides on a Saturday. Recession played a part, lack of visibility played a part, the reduction of weekday working occupations in this area was a factor. 

Shit, my ECB masterplan might take some time to do in full

Stuckfast

Is there any useful data available about the decline in grassroots participation in cricket as compared with other sports? Every time I talk to anyone involved in football or rugby they seem to bemoan the same issue. Rugby union has a problem with being dominated by private schools, too.

Heartfeltdawn

https://www.statista.com/statistics/421078/cricket-sport-involvment-children-england-uk/

"In 2016, approximately 364,600 adults played cricket at least twice in the last month, whereas in 2018 it shrunk to roughly 291,900 cricket players." 

Sport England data:
https://sportengland-production-files.s3.eu-west-2.amazonaws.com/s3fs-public/1x30_sport_16plus-factsheet_aps10.pdf


I

sixstringsupplies

@Heartfeltdawn can you do your country a service and apply for the ECB CEO job in 2022? Harrison will surely be forced out before then: https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/the-ashes-202122-england-could-field-under-strength-ashes-squad-as-ecb-resist-postponement-1278049

Or director of cricket, whatever the top job is!