The cricket thread

guitars4you

I'm a Yorkshire fan - I've not read all the reports in any detail at all - Just the key points - I'm sure I'm the same as many Yorkshire cricket fans that racism is not acceptable in anyway shape or form - Any cover up, denial is equally not acceptable - As I said, I've not read enough to know the full story other than the jist 

Couple of questions/points

How does this impact bringing through the next generation of players like Adil Rashid 

As far as I'm aware, other than Lords + Oval, all cricket clubs/grounds only financially exist through the funding from the ECB, inc the Sky deals + international matches - All clubs I believe are making a lost without this ECB funding - So any form of a fine is surely either a) putting the business at risk of closure and/or b) effectively the fine will be paid by the ECB's own funding

Who do I support - You can't just walk away from the club and now support Derbyshire (where I live) - Walking away from your team is like walking away from the game

International matches - Not fully sure how it works for those who watch England at other test match info's - But for Headingley, tickets are first allocated to the England Membership and Yorkshire membership first - They get priority - Next is where I come in - Once you are on the band wagon and have purchased tickets for a previous International match at Headingley, you now get priority supply for the next international match, be it T20 50/50 or Test - I watched England v India in 2021 - I have already purchased tickets for the 50/50 v SA - This now gives me priority for a 2023 test v the Aussies, so no need to go through any lottery stage - At this stage I've had no contact offer of a refund etc for the 50/50 v SA but dare say it will follow - But where does this leave me - I dare say to apply for tickets at other venues, not to far away from me, for 2022, like Trent Bridge, Old Trafford and Edgbaston, then these venues will be sold out already - Then for 2023 v the Aussies, at best I will have to go into a lucky pick lottery for a test match - So chances are I will not be able to watch an England match live for a while - Surely it is not fair to deny good cricket fans the chance to watch international matches, at a venue they like, that is close to them - However a slight moan/disappointment for me personally is nothing compared to the abuse, worry,  thoughts of suicide that Azeem Rafiq had to endure

I'm sorry for what Azeem has had to go through - But surely part of the punishment with a full name/shame should be to the players, coaches, concerned, along with the 'management' involved in the cover-up/denial - But in many ways, myself and many other good fans, have also been found guilty as well and that isn't fair - But as I said thoughts + support should be for Azeem and not me 

Rich210

guitars4you said:

How does this impact bringing through the next generation of players like Adil Rashid 

To give some context to my answer, I spent my youth knocking on the Lancashire set up and played high-level amateur cricket for the majority of my 20s. During that time I became a level 2 + additional coaching components that come before the level 3 assessment. During my playing and coaching time I volunteered for the village club as a representative at league meetings, and also developed a 20/20 format for local clubs in the area I was living in at the time. While I did my masters and PhD I played for the university I studied at when possible. 

I perceived most cricket clubs were institutionally racist. I perceived that at all clubs I played at and with apart from 1. The weren't just racist. Often they were bigoted and homophobic. Even in league meetings I listened to old men talk about the perils of puffs coaching children. I would often here a typical slur of "them Asians" on the university team coming from local white players. At one cricket club they even had a massive painting in the pavilion depicting white colonial power taking on 'savages'.  

I think it's going to be really difficult and a lot more stories are going to come out. Racism in cricket is broadly accepted by those within the community. Yorkshire CCC is a typical example of institutionalised racism where those in power don't see what they are doing as racist. That still doesn't mean they are not racist, because it's obvious they are to others from the outside. But when an institution can not see it happening, and deny it's happening, but it happens, that is a sign of significant institutional racism.

I think it's going to take a huge change for things to improve. Cricket clubs are small scale, local places often run by a very small amount volunteers that do the lionshare of the work. From my perception these people tend to be quite bitter and twisted, and often complain about no one wanting to help them. It means that there is often no reason to change as they are closed shops run by difficult people. There are some initiatives at some clubs to promote cricket to the local Pakistani and Bangladeshi communities but these are in the minority. 

guitars4you

^^^^^ - thanks for the insight - I've not delved into enough detail on this story, but as you say I'm expecting more to come out, both regarding YCCC ex-players and I dare say other players from other counties - But I'm surprised we've not heard more from other Asian based players who have played at YCCC agreeing with Azeem

I'm also a touched surprised at the ban on International matches for a while at Headingley - Partly as this story is not new - ECB knew about it a while ago - Yet the ECB still granted a 'franchise' to Headingley/Northern Supercharges - So why grant such an arrangement when bad news is in the air - I dare say they will say at the point of the 'franchises' in place, it was to late to change and/or the racism charge was not in place

crunchman

Don't expect any coherent approach out of the ECB.  It's an organisation that thinks the Hundred is a good idea, and used the phrase "upweight resources" in its statement on this the other day.

Heartfeltdawn

guitars4you said:

How does this impact bringing through the next generation of players like Adil Rashid 

As far as I'm aware, other than Lords + Oval, all cricket clubs/grounds only financially exist through the funding from the ECB, inc the Sky deals + international matches - All clubs I believe are making a lost without this ECB funding - So any form of a fine is surely either a) putting the business at risk of closure and/or b) effectively the fine will be paid by the ECB's own funding

Who do I support - You can't just walk away from the club and now support Derbyshire (where I live) - Walking away from your team is like walking away from the game

The ECB is indeed in a bind when it comes to YCCC. If they aren't tough on them for the racism, then it makes their whole inclusivity approach over the international game, taking a knee, and the Hundred look fucking stupid. 

If they don't slap on major penalties, then Durham can rightly stand up and ask what the fuck is going on given how they were treated. 

it's going to be a long drawn out process and the first set is for complete change at the top within YCCC. 

Heartfeltdawn

Rich210 said:

To give some context to my answer, I spent my youth knocking on the Lancashire set up and played high-level amateur cricket for the majority of my 20s. During that time I became a level 2 + additional coaching components that come before the level 3 assessment. During my playing and coaching time I volunteered for the village club as a representative at league meetings, and also developed a 20/20 format for local clubs in the area I was living in at the time. While I did my masters and PhD I played for the university I studied at when possible. 

I perceived most cricket clubs were institutionally racist. I perceived that at all clubs I played at and with apart from 1. The weren't just racist. Often they were bigoted and homophobic. Even in league meetings I listened to old men talk about the perils of puffs coaching children. I would often here a typical slur of "them Asians" on the university team coming from local white players. At one cricket club they even had a massive painting in the pavilion depicting white colonial power taking on 'savages'.  

I think it's going to be really difficult and a lot more stories are going to come out. Racism in cricket is broadly accepted by those within the community. Yorkshire CCC is a typical example of institutionalised racism where those in power don't see what they are doing as racist. That still doesn't mean they are not racist, because it's obvious they are to others from the outside. But when an institution can not see it happening, and deny it's happening, but it happens, that is a sign of significant institutional racism.

I think it's going to take a huge change for things to improve. Cricket clubs are small scale, local places often run by a very small amount volunteers that do the lionshare of the work. From my perception these people tend to be quite bitter and twisted, and often complain about no one wanting to help them. It means that there is often no reason to change as they are closed shops run by difficult people. There are some initiatives at some clubs to promote cricket to the local Pakistani and Bangladeshi communities but these are in the minority. 

I'd agree with much of that from my experiences of uni, youth county, and league cricket around the West Country. One of the things that oddly hasn't been said in much of the press about the YCCC case is that it's very much racism against a specific identity (Muslim/Islam). This is very much what I heard in the leagues. West Indian sides were accepted, the South African and Australians likewise, and we had a lot of good Zimbabweans come over and play in the area. through playing with overseas guys who used phrases like 'Saffer' and 'Zimbo' about themselves, it was taken that those phrases were as acceptable as Brit and Aussie. It was a different case when it came to Pakistani-heavy teams. Little of the racism was vitriolic. You can imagine the comments about curries and rags on the head. 

One thing I did find though: the comments about curries and whatnot defined league cricket. The more overt "fucking N word" racism came at the higher levels of youth county cricket and predominantly from public school educated people. It actually dawned on me a few weeks ago since moving back to this part of the world how few people from my playing days I'm still in touch with who still play here. 

scrumhalf

World T20 final is shaping up ti be a good game. However, the scrote on the PA who cannot let ten seconds pass between balls without shouting his head off with a load of utter, utter, utter bollocks has to taken outside and shot. It's coming close to ruining it.

We don't need music blasting out. We don't need twats bawling out over the PA.

Oh dear lord, there's a woman doing it now. 

SHUT THE FUCK UP!!! 

BBBlues

Is the T20 still going? I thought the final finished after the coin toss had been done.

crunchman

Less than a month until the proper cricket starts (8th Dec in Brisbane).

crunchman

Not looking good for Vaughan:

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/nov/15/england-spinner-adil-rashid-backs-azeem-rafiq-racism-claims-against-michael-vaughan-cricket

I think I read somewhere that Vaughan's lawyers were involved in blocking the publication of the report.

Rich210

It's interesting that some of the key points that Azeem Rafiq raised was that Yorkshire was not taking responsibility for the actions of their players and staff. And still the whistleblowing helpline which has just been set up has been set up by a barrister. The new chairman of Yorkshire, Lord Patel, thought it was important that yorkshire CC was separate from the hotline. 

This strikes me as the club not listening again. Yorkshire clearly need to set up their own hotline and learn the necessary processes to deal with racism. 

earwighoney

Rich210 said:

It's interesting that some of the key points that Azeem Rafiq raised was that Yorkshire was not taking responsibility for the actions of their players and staff. And still the whistleblowing helpline which has just been set up has been set up by a barrister. The new chairman of Yorkshire, Lord Patel, thought it was important that yorkshire CC was separate from the hotline. 

This strikes me as the club not listening again. Yorkshire clearly need to set up their own hotline and learn the necessary processes to deal with racism. 

I think it's indicative of how little regard YCCC regarded the matter.

It seemed the ECB/YCCC begun to act once the sponsors jumped ship.

Rich210

@earwighoney ;

Agreed, but also political pressure. It's interesting the Hutton believes the ECB should have done the independent review. Actually, I think in circumstances like this it should be up to the organisation to do it. This would expose institutional racism as it has done at Yorkshire. If Yorkshire did a proper job of their report then they wouldn't have to rethink what they do. 

It seemed to me the Rafiq wanted understanding and apology from the people he thought should take care of him. Instead they passed the book to barristers and redrafted and redacted a report that told yorkshire something they didn't like. As someone that really hates racism in cricket and has done for years and years, I say fuck'em I hope this experience showers a world of shit on those racist bastards that make cricket clubs royally shit places. 

earwighoney

Rich210 said:

@earwighoney ;

Agreed, but also political pressure. It's interesting the Hutton believes the ECB should have done the independent review. Actually, I think in circumstances like this it should be up to the organisation to do it. This would expose institutional racism as it has done at Yorkshire. If Yorkshire did a proper job of their report then they wouldn't have to rethink what they do. 

It seemed to me the Rafiq wanted understanding and apology from the people he thought should take care of him. Instead they passed the book to barristers and redrafted and redacted a report that told yorkshire something they didn't like. As someone that really hates racism in cricket and has done for years and years, I say fuck'em I hope this experience showers a world of shit on those racist bastards that make cricket clubs royally shit places. 

Some great points and I agree with them entirely.

It will be interesting what happens from here on, I can't see the ECB taking any action as they are too close to Yorks in being Colin Graves. 

I believe ECB like with YCCC wanted the issue to go down quietly so everyone would forget about it.

sev112

I’m glad this is happening.
cricket clubs always were full of teams of blokes who were racist, homophobic, bullies, misogynist, and generally vocally critical of anyone of different size, shape, political beliefs, background, nationality, education, intelligence, partners, music taste etc. as well.  All in the name of “banter” and character/team building.  

I hope that they extend the debate/investigation into other areas as well.  

I think football clubs and rugby clubs were the same, cycling clubs certainly were.  I think the only  clubs I’ve been a member of that weren’t were chess clubs.  

Don’t know where this will end, but I’m hoping it will be positive

26.2

sev112 said:

I’m glad this is happening.
cricket clubs always were full of teams of blokes who were racist, homophobic, bullies, misogynist, and generally vocally critical of anyone of different size, shape, political beliefs, background, nationality, education, intelligence, partners, music taste etc. as well.  All in the name of “banter” and character/team building.  

I hope that they extend the debate/investigation into other areas as well.  

I think football clubs and rugby clubs were the same, cycling clubs certainly were.  I think the only  clubs I’ve been a member of that weren’t were chess clubs.  

Don’t know where this will end, but I’m hoping it will be positive

I think this is is spot on. The alpha, ultra competitive types that play organised sport, even at a low level, usually set the tone and there is a pressure to be ‘one of the lads’ and to demonstrably share the views that are seen as the norm, no-matter how repellent. Anything different is seized upon as a weakness to be exploited but if challenged, is ‘just banter mate’. 

This is why I’m a runner. I can do the majority of it on my own. 

26.2

Also I’ve been a Yorkshire supporter for more than 40 years. Not any more though. 

Nitefly

Blimey - Paine steps down as Aussie captain!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/59343005

"Sexually explicit texts to a female colleague"

Offset

Looks like Rafiq has a few skeletons of his own rattling around:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/59338118

Stuckfast

Who's staying up late tonight then? Will they really leave out Jimmy or is it a double bluff?