The cricket thread

guitars4you

camf said:

Top quality ebb-and-flow test cricket. 

As I said, I almost bailed out of this on day 2 - Just shows what test cricket is all about 

Fingers657

Excellent win for England.

crunchman

Good win for the Windies too.  A good Windies team is good for cricket.

scrumhalf

Apparently Rahul and Jadeja both injured for the second test. 

guitars4you

Well not much hope for us in the 3rd test

2 sessions today and we effectively self destruct 

guitars4you

Sad to read about the death of Mike Procter- Going back into the 70,s when I first started watching cricket and I think Mike Procter was the first all rounder I became aware of - Sober’s was before my time and Beefy not yet on the scene - obviously his international career barely existed due to apartheid 

scrumhalf

28-4!

And this after the Indian batsmen were slapping the ball into the stands at will. 

Jonathangus

And now 50-5.  FFS!

Bazball is fantastic when it comes off, but they need a Plan B.

scrumhalf

Well, at least the margin of defeat will be less than 500 runs. 

guitars4you

Take the session or two when Duckett was on fire and maybe the opening spell when we had them something like 33-3 - Other than that we have been 2nd best all test - And today is woeful 

Fingers657

Jonathangus said:

And now 50-5.  FFS!

Bazball is fantastic when it comes off, but they need a Plan B.

What happened to Him ? one album then nothing.
A bit like Gandhi He made one good film then nothing.
87 for 8 isn’t worth getting up at 4 am for.

scrumhalf

If they dare come up with any more of that "this is how we play" bollocks... 

chris78

I’m going to defend them, even though that was wretched.
Nobody wins in India and we’ve gone to India with our best spinner crocked and 3 spinners who haven’t played 10 tests between them. We’ve lost Brook, which is a huge miss, before the first test.
Yes, it’s disappointing we threw a winning position away, but it doesn’t change the fact that Bazball has made us better

crunchman

chris78 said:

I’m going to defend them, even though that was wretched.
Nobody wins in India and we’ve gone to India with our best spinner crocked and 3 spinners who haven’t played 10 tests between them. We’ve lost Brook, which is a huge miss, before the first test.
Yes, it’s disappointing we threw a winning position away, but it doesn’t change the fact that Bazball has made us better

It's not made everyone better.  Root has been woeful on this tour compared with what he's done in India before.

By all means be positive, and don't go into your shell, but what we've been seeing goes far beyond that into the realms of stupidity.

chris78

crunchman said:

chris78 said:

I’m going to defend them, even though that was wretched.
Nobody wins in India and we’ve gone to India with our best spinner crocked and 3 spinners who haven’t played 10 tests between them. We’ve lost Brook, which is a huge miss, before the first test.
Yes, it’s disappointing we threw a winning position away, but it doesn’t change the fact that Bazball has made us better

It's not made everyone better.  Root has been woeful on this tour compared with what he's done in India before.

By all means be positive, and don't go into your shell, but what we've been seeing goes far beyond that into the realms of stupidity.

Nobody thought it was stupid after the first test 

crunchman

chris78 said:

crunchman said:

chris78 said:

I’m going to defend them, even though that was wretched.
Nobody wins in India and we’ve gone to India with our best spinner crocked and 3 spinners who haven’t played 10 tests between them. We’ve lost Brook, which is a huge miss, before the first test.
Yes, it’s disappointing we threw a winning position away, but it doesn’t change the fact that Bazball has made us better

It's not made everyone better.  Root has been woeful on this tour compared with what he's done in India before.

By all means be positive, and don't go into your shell, but what we've been seeing goes far beyond that into the realms of stupidity.

Nobody thought it was stupid after the first test 

I did - especially after the first innings.  It was an incredible comeback, but getting rolled for 246 in the first innings was a complete disgrace.  One great innings from Pope doesn't hide how poor most of the rest of the batting was.

To win test matches consistently, you need batsman who can bat for a day and a half.  Our openers, and some of the middle order players as well, don't have the technique, so they play a one day style game.  That's high risk.  It comes off sometimes, but other times it completely falls apart.  We will never be consistent against good teams until our batsmen get better techniques and learn to play long innings.

The other advantage of playing in a more traditional way is that it wears down the opposition.  If we'd taken 110 overs in our first innings instead of 71 overs, that's 39 extra overs in the bowlers legs.  It's well over a session extra in the field.  When the Indian openers come out to bat in the second innings, they are tired.   The bowlers won't be putting the same energy on the ball in the second innings.  If you do win the toss and bat first, the opposition are going to have a worse pitch in the 4th innings.

guitars4you

I think as a team we have not batted well together with any substantial partnerships - Yes a great innings by Pope and later by Duckett - But take this out of isolation and we've had nothing of any consequence to build on - I think an aggressive/proactive approach might suit the likes of Duckett it doesn't suit Root - I'm a Root fan - But think he should be able to play his natural game, around 1 or 2 'big hitters' - He doesn't need to go into scoop mode with so little runs on the board - At times he can be expansive, with runs already on the board and the right wicket - But at times he should be the central figure that others play with and around and build a partnership together - Especially in the middle order, with 2/3 wickets often falling quickly 

Baz ball is fine - It has scored more runs this tour than the last tour in India - But it needs to be clever in parts, with 1/2/3 rocks within it

Also as Ben can't bowl at the moment - The balance of the side is wrong - Having to use Root as an all rounder is wrong - He  should be a 'last hope' as/when required, or use him to rest other options at times - But to make him the 5th bowler just doesn't stack up for me  

I'm a Bairstow fan, but this tour hasn't worked out for him so far - Brookes will probably walk back into that place - But as it stands, Stokes should be at 5 and bring in another bowler, but sadly we don't appear to have an all round option 

scrumhalf

Root scored his runs and made his reputation by not playing Bazball-style cricket.

Asking him to change that style and expecting the same results is stupid. It's like saying to James Anderson "okay, you've taken hundreds of wickets bowling fast-medium but we now want you to bowl slow left armers".

They haven't operated as an efficient batting unit in this series, and yesterday's surrender was shocking. The scorebook doesn't come with pictures, it just shows a caputulation. 

chris78

crunchman said:

chris78 said:

crunchman said:

chris78 said:

I’m going to defend them, even though that was wretched.
Nobody wins in India and we’ve gone to India with our best spinner crocked and 3 spinners who haven’t played 10 tests between them. We’ve lost Brook, which is a huge miss, before the first test.
Yes, it’s disappointing we threw a winning position away, but it doesn’t change the fact that Bazball has made us better

It's not made everyone better.  Root has been woeful on this tour compared with what he's done in India before.

By all means be positive, and don't go into your shell, but what we've been seeing goes far beyond that into the realms of stupidity.

Nobody thought it was stupid after the first test 

I did - especially after the first innings.  It was an incredible comeback, but getting rolled for 246 in the first innings was a complete disgrace.  One great innings from Pope doesn't hide how poor most of the rest of the batting was.

To win test matches consistently, you need batsman who can bat for a day and a half.  Our openers, and some of the middle order players as well, don't have the technique, so they play a one day style game.  That's high risk.  It comes off sometimes, but other times it completely falls apart.  We will never be consistent against good teams until our batsmen get better techniques and learn to play long innings.

The other advantage of playing in a more traditional way is that it wears down the opposition.  If we'd taken 110 overs in our first innings instead of 71 overs, that's 39 extra overs in the bowlers legs.  It's well over a session extra in the field.  When the Indian openers come out to bat in the second innings, they are tired.   The bowlers won't be putting the same energy on the ball in the second innings.  If you do win the toss and bat first, the opposition are going to have a worse pitch in the 4th innings.

Our record under stokes suggests otherwise.

Agree about Root, but I’m sure he’s not being told to play ultra aggressively. The point of bazball isn’t to dictate what players do. It’s to take pressure off them

crunchman

chris78 said:

Our record under stokes suggests otherwise.

Agree about Root, but I’m sure he’s not being told to play ultra aggressively. The point of bazball isn’t to dictate what players do. It’s to take pressure off them

It's putting a different pressure on them though.  They seem to feel that they have to play stupid shots.

It's also limiting who they select.  I'm pretty sure that they have said they aren't interested in an old fashioned blocker at the top of the order.  There aren't many players knocking on the door, but you do need to select your best players, regardless of what style they play.