Line 6 Helix

sgosden

In case anyone missed it, @digital_igloo is giving into peer pressure over at TGP and has teased one of the 2.3 new comers ;

"Okay, one tiny morsel. Here's the least sexy of the 7 new effects:

• Volume/Pan > Stereo Width (Stereo), Line 6 Original utility to dynamically collapse stereo paths"

John_A

He's right. That is not very sexy . 

Cabicular

I don’t even know what it is
I think meters are going to appear
I also would postulate a 65 amps model will appear (just based on the allure packs)

John_A

I'm having a bit of difficulty with my Helix.  Up until now I've really only been using a few patches that I created myself, one JCM800 based which covers 90% of what I do, and one Archetype Clean for the other 10%, I could probably roll them in to one patch, but the way the set pans out there's really no need to.

By JCM800 patch has a 10 band graphic in there that I played about with extensively before I was really happy with it.

So.  I thought I should really try any use a few other models for some variety and I'm struggling to find any I really like, the Plexi is good, but again only with the graphic EQ, which basically makes it sound like a JCM800.  I've seen videos online where people grab an amp and a cab and in 2 minutes they have something that sounds great, I'm just not managing that.

Any tips?

guitarfishbay

John_A said:

I'm having a bit of difficulty with my Helix.  Up until now I've really only been using a few patches that I created myself, one JCM800 based which covers 90% of what I do, and one Archetype Clean for the other 10%, I could probably roll them in to one patch, but the way the set pans out there's really no need to.

By JCM800 patch has a 10 band graphic in there that I played about with extensively before I was really happy with it.

So.  I thought I should really try any use a few other models for some variety and I'm struggling to find any I really like, the Plexi is good, but again only with the graphic EQ, which basically makes it sound like a JCM800.  I've seen videos online where people grab an amp and a cab and in 2 minutes they have something that sounds great, I'm just not managing that.

Any tips?

I'd honestly look at impulses first.  If you're needing to use a lot of post EQ that suggests to me that the cab isn't quite right.  What speakers/speaker cabs did you like best for your previous real rig?

If you only like one type of sound it honestly makes more sense to just get a bunch of IR options on that particular cab.  I really rate Ownhammer but also if it's a celestion speaker the Celestion Plus IR's are worth a go too.  In general I'd stick with SM57, or blended SM57 + either MD421 or Royer 121 type impulses as those are the typical sounds that generally work.  Just load in the options for those into your Helix (probably ignore the rest to begin with) and scroll them until you get one that's closer to what you want before you start using the graphic EQs

John_A

Cheers, normally used G12H or Greenbacks, mic'd with a 57.  I'll grab some IR's and give them a try, just been using the stock cabs up until now to keep things simple.  The Celestion ones aren't cheap are they?

guitarfishbay

John_A said:

Cheers, normally used G12H or Greenbacks, mic'd with a 57.  I'll grab some IR's and give them a try, just been using the stock cabs up until now to keep things simple.  The Celestion ones aren't cheap are they?

No they're not cheap.  But I figure it's Celestion working out that a lot of people are going digital so they're getting a slice of the IR pie to replace potentially lost sales.

For H and M greenbacks I really rate this pack, and it's pretty reasonably priced https://www.ownhammer.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=164&products_id=372

John_A

guitarfishbay said:

John_A said:

Cheers, normally used G12H or Greenbacks, mic'd with a 57.  I'll grab some IR's and give them a try, just been using the stock cabs up until now to keep things simple.  The Celestion ones aren't cheap are they?

No they're not cheap.  But I figure it's Celestion working out that a lot of people are going digital so they're getting a slice of the IR pie to replace potentially lost sales.

For H and M greenbacks I really rate this pack, and it's pretty reasonably priced https://www.ownhammer.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=164&products_id=372

They do look good value.  Any opinions on the Rewirez free Marshall ones?

guitarfishbay

I'd start with the SM57 IRs first, they're labelled 00 (brightest) to 10 (darkest).  Just load them in and scroll them until you find something that sounds closer to what you want.

If you want to go deeper, the mixes that might be of use to you:

Modern = SM57 + MD421 - still pretty tight but just a bit bigger sounding overall than a plain 57

OH1 = SM57 + Royer 121 - adds in a bunch of thick low end to the cutting mids of the 57, doesn't always work but if you find you need more bass then that's worth a look.

With the speaker mixes, the dominant speaker is listed first.  So M + H is M Dominant, H + M is H dominant.  This is consistent across all the OH multi speaker packs.  I don't usually use the speaker blends but they're there as an option.

Most of the time I stick with the SM57 or modern mixes.  I just pull up the speaker I want and scroll my options in either of those.  The IR does make a lot of difference to the sound, so IMO it's best to try and get as close to what you're going for as possible with the IR first before tweaking the amp.

Jonathanthomas83

guitarfishbay said:

Modern = SM57 + MD421 - still pretty tight but just a bit bigger sounding overall than a plain 57

This! I love this. Always used to do an R121 + 57 mix, but recently switched to the MD421 and it's much more to my tastes. Tight and defined, really nice!

And @guitarfishbay thanks for the advice re:gates, appreciated, as always!

guitarfishbay

John_A said:

guitarfishbay said:

John_A said:

Cheers, normally used G12H or Greenbacks, mic'd with a 57.  I'll grab some IR's and give them a try, just been using the stock cabs up until now to keep things simple.  The Celestion ones aren't cheap are they?

No they're not cheap.  But I figure it's Celestion working out that a lot of people are going digital so they're getting a slice of the IR pie to replace potentially lost sales.

For H and M greenbacks I really rate this pack, and it's pretty reasonably priced https://www.ownhammer.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=164&products_id=372

They do look good value.  Any opinions on the Rewirez free Marshall ones?

I've not tried the free ones.  But free is probably worth a go!

I have some of the paid ones, mostly bass.

My opinion is they sound decent but they're not as user friendly as OH or Celestion Plus.  The RW packs I have list distance and position from the speaker, e.g. 'SM57 2 inches cap edge' (or similar, going off memory). 

This means you kind of need to have a bit more idea of what you're looking for.  They make sense to me, but to be honest I think Celestion and Ownhammer's approach of limiting to a few strong sounding positions (as realistically most people don't use the less standard positions) and having a clear system for finding sounds (OH has the numbers system, Celestion uses descriptive words) works better and faster.

Cabicular

Don’t ignore the line6 models
my current fav is the line 6 epic
its a more midrangey Marshall type sound
everything is better in stereo and everything benefits from have a low gain drive like a Minotaur in front of it
IMO

siraxeman

The Fremen IR's I got with the Big Pack are apparently tweaked free IR's....apparently in AxeFX there's some way of tweaking IR's and manipulating them furthere? Either way they sound good. Next few weeks i'll buy the other packs.

John_A

Thanks for the tips folks, will have a play and report back.

guitarfishbay

Cabicular said:

Don’t ignore the line6 models
my current fav is the line 6 epic
its a more midrangey Marshall type sound
everything is better in stereo and everything benefits from have a low gain drive like a Minotaur in front of it
IMO

For an opposite POV I don’t like panned stereo amps at all.

Every single clip I’ve listened to where someone has posted a single Guitar stereo hard panned amps on a Helix/Axe FX etc make me feel disoriented, on a scale dependent on the frequency disparity. Hard panned bright vs bassy makes me feel like my head wants to tilt. It never sounds as powerful as a single amp tone to me.

Panned effects work fine. Actually double tracked Guitar is fine even with different tones. Might just be how my brain is wired.

Cabicular

guitarfishbay said:

Cabicular said:

Don’t ignore the line6 models
my current fav is the line 6 epic
its a more midrangey Marshall type sound
everything is better in stereo and everything benefits from have a low gain drive like a Minotaur in front of it
IMO

For an opposite POV I don’t like panned stereo amps at all.

Every single clip I’ve listened to where someone has posted a single Guitar stereo hard panned amps on a Helix/Axe FX etc make me feel disoriented, on a scale dependent on the frequency disparity. Hard panned bright vs bassy makes me feel like my head wants to tilt. It never sounds as powerful as a single amp tone to me.

Panned effects work fine. Actually double tracked Guitar is fine even with different tones. Might just be how my brain is wired.

Stereo delay reverb flange and chorus?
my main patch has 1 amp but two cabs for stereo and stereo fX afterwards
i do like stereo panned amps with a bit of delay between them but that’s just the way I am

guitarfishbay

Cabicular said:

Stereo delay reverb flange and chorus?
my main patch has 1 amp but two cabs for stereo and stereo fX afterwards
i do like stereo panned amps with a bit of delay between them but that’s just the way I am

Yeah a single amp/cab and stereo mod/ambient effects sounds fine to me. 

Splitting the core tone between different sounding L and R always sounds odd to me though, especially if they’re quite different in the high and low end. The hard panned short delayed amps thing generally sounds wide but weaker to me. Every time I mute a powerchord it feels less bassy and punchy because the attack is arriving at different times. Same low end coming out of each speaker at the same time sounds more solid to me.

Depends what end result is wanted and personal taste too.

John_A

guitarfishbay said:

John_A said:

Cheers, normally used G12H or Greenbacks, mic'd with a 57.  I'll grab some IR's and give them a try, just been using the stock cabs up until now to keep things simple.  The Celestion ones aren't cheap are they?

No they're not cheap.  But I figure it's Celestion working out that a lot of people are going digital so they're getting a slice of the IR pie to replace potentially lost sales.

For H and M greenbacks I really rate this pack, and it's pretty reasonably priced https://www.ownhammer.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=164&products_id=372

Downloaded the ownhammer Marshall pack, and I'm liking it, been comparing my old standa d patch with the Helix cab models and the IRs certainly sound more alive.  Need to audition them more closely, but need to give my ears a rest first

guitarfishbay

John_A said:

guitarfishbay said:

John_A said:

Cheers, normally used G12H or Greenbacks, mic'd with a 57.  I'll grab some IR's and give them a try, just been using the stock cabs up until now to keep things simple.  The Celestion ones aren't cheap are they?

No they're not cheap.  But I figure it's Celestion working out that a lot of people are going digital so they're getting a slice of the IR pie to replace potentially lost sales.

For H and M greenbacks I really rate this pack, and it's pretty reasonably priced https://www.ownhammer.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=164&products_id=372

Downloaded the ownhammer Marshall pack, and I'm liking it, been comparing my old standa d patch with the Helix cab models and the IRs certainly sound more alive.  Need to audition them more closely, but need to give my ears a rest first

Great hope it works out for you.

I really like that pack. In fact I’ve never bought a dud from OH, I feel like he’s got his methodology down really well, and considering how much stuff is in a pack it feels like good value to me. 

John_A

Think I have myself a new core tone.  JTM45 for clean, Badonk for crunch & dirt OH G12M Modern (I think) IR.  In some ways, the Helix is a pain being so flexible, there's a billion great sounds in there and 10 billion rubbish ones, I think they need a 'You dont wanna do that it'll sound like shit' feature

It's such a huge difference from having one real amp/cab I can see wy people give up.  Not me!