The Rugby Union Thread

Gassage

A few points:

Watson thing, totally inoccuous,

Sexton- he's one strike away from the end of his career.

The one thing you guys missed was Vunipola's haymaker on Loann Goujon after the huge tackle.

It was shown on French TV. I expect him to be cited.

Last point- by a mile, George Kruis was the MoM and the Player of the Series for me. Saturday he won us that game.

crunchman

lloyd said:

I think the phrase "knowing how to play the ref" is one of the saddest in sport....no other sport has a similar outlook and it elevates the referee into a position where they can and do have an effect on the outcome of a game, which for me is sad, there's no other sport I can think of where this is the case?

I think it goes on to some extent in the NFL.  Different crews of officials do sometimes differ slightly.  Some crews might have a reputation for letting a bit of downfield contact happen between receivers and defensive backs, while others will call a foul if a defensive back so much as breathes on a receiver.

Gassage

@lloyd

Bearing in mind laws are a framework with which to interprate, you will always need to play the ref.

An example: Barnes is ridiculously pedatic at scrum time and will ping and reset. Roman Poite (IMO the best RIGHT NOW) will just ping and will not have any nonsense.

Nige and Poite will alllow more of a jackal contest and allow a player to set the ball more than Joubert.

Good sides will know what the ref wants. To argue otherwise is daft.

koneguitarist

Gassage said:

A few points:

Watson thing, totally inoccuous,

Sexton- he's one strike away from the end of his career.

The one thing you guys missed was Vunipola's haymaker on Loann Goujon after the huge tackle.

It was shown on French TV. I expect him to be cited.

Last point- by a mile, George Kruis was the MoM and the Player of the Series for me. Saturday he won us that game.

I saw it, thought it was out of character for Billy V but other guy was on the floor on his back when Billy did it. Ref Watson, how anyone can say that's fairly innocuous after see init again and the photo which to me is far worse than Ashton's, I cannot see why he was not cited. It's a mockery.

Gassage

Taff, because his fingers, as per the pic, were not inverted to the eyes. Also Watson is clearly looking at the ball at the time.

Re the punch (which I'd expect a 4 week ban for) they were both prone, but Billy was less prone if that makes sense.

lloyd

Gassage said:

@lloyd

Bearing in mind laws are a framework with which to interprate, you will always need to play the ref.

An example: Barnes is ridiculously pedatic at scrum time and will ping and reset. Roman Poite (IMO the best RIGHT NOW) will just ping and will not have any nonsense.

Nige and Poite will alllow more of a jackal contest and allow a player to set the ball more than Joubert.

Good sides will know what the ref wants. To argue otherwise is daft.

Aye fair enough, I do think the gap between refs interpretations is too wide in a sport so big though, I'd like to see the gap narrowed.

Gassage

Let's be positive:
Team of Tourny

Mine:

Hogg

Watson
Campagnaro
Roberts
North

Biggar
Murray

Evans
Guiardho
Nel
Kruis
Itoje
Robshaw (maybe CJ Stander)
Haskell (maybe Hardie)
Vunipola

lloyd

Fretwired said:

lloyd said:

Fretwired said:

lloyd said:

Good points well made @kjdowd while Owens does let the game flow, I think he goes too far (not to mention his look at me antics, especially when he's on the touchline, always comes to have a word to get on tv....) Barnes is too whistle happy and goes too far the other way. I'd be happy for the game to be reffed either way to be honest, as long as it's done consistently.

Good grief .. you want a perfect world. It's not going to happen. IMHO rugby is being ruined by the stop/start TMO rubbish. Refs aren't always going to get it right - it's part of the game. The TMO is useful for the 'is there any reason I can't award a try' scenarios and dangerous play but it's getting beyond a joke. Owens is the best ref in the world and I thought he does very - he lets the game flow ... the world we are heading to will be a game of stop start check with 10 other officials to make sure the ref didn't miss something.

Again I'd say this is unfair, the post you quote sees me say I'd be happy for it to be officiated either way as long as there is consistency. Consistent decisions aren't what I'd call a perfect world, it's probably the least the sport deserves. Nigel Owens letting the game flow for me can be translated as doesn't referee the rules properly. Yeah that's one opinion and there's many others on him and his style of refereeing but there we go. The problem with letting things go is that sometimes the same offences are penalised and sometimes not, the team penalised will see that in some instances as bias. His style of refereeing will also benefit certain teams, that have a certain way of playing. I think the phrase "knowing how to play the ref" is one of the saddest in sport....no other sport has a similar outlook and it elevates the referee into a position where they can and do have an effect on the outcome of a game, which for me is sad, there's no other sport I can think of where this is the case?

I wasn't having a  pop at you, just that, as in football, there are different styles of referee and I can't ever see that changing. The players like Owens because he is consistent. He was on Saturday. Rugby will get ruined with too many minor petty rules and too much time wasted everything from setting the scrum to the TMO. Not sure if a try has been scored and you can't see clearly? Award the try and give the benefit of the doubt to the attacking team.

Fair enough.

sev112

All the Ycs in recent years are where the player takes out the legs of the jumping player. Not where the two players jump and one gets there first. To my mind if you don't want to be challenged in the air, which is perfectly legal, then don't jump and instead wait for the ball to come down. But they don't,they jump. So you take the risk of getting smacked in a fair challenge, just because one player gets there slightly later does not make it an unfair challenge Taking out the legs when they are in the air is unfair and what gets you a YC

lloyd

crunchman said:

lloyd said:

I think the phrase "knowing how to play the ref" is one of the saddest in sport....no other sport has a similar outlook and it elevates the referee into a position where they can and do have an effect on the outcome of a game, which for me is sad, there's no other sport I can think of where this is the case?

I think it goes on to some extent in the NFL.  Different crews of officials do sometimes differ slightly.  Some crews might have a reputation for letting a bit of downfield contact happen between receivers and defensive backs, while others will call a foul if a defensive back so much as breathes on a receiver.

A slight difference will always be there as these are human beings and mistakes will always be made, I think we can all live with that. I just think that there's too much difference between the top refs, put Barnes and Owens in charge of the same game and you'll have a different game completely. That to me is what's wrong with it. The glaring errors that happen all too often could do with being reduced too.

Gassage

I am getting very bored with Barnes pedantry and also Nigel's (who is a friend) narcissism.

Poite and Garces are the kiddies at the moment. Glen Jackson, given time, will be great too and I have no issue with CJ and never will.

Clancy- words fail me.

kjdowd

Gassage;1010895" said:

Let's be positive:

Team of Tourny



Mine:



Hogg



Watson

Campagnaro

Roberts

North



Biggar

Murray



Evans

Guiardho

Nel

Kruis

Itoje

Robshaw (maybe CJ Stander)

Haskell (maybe Hardie)

Vunipola

Not many arguments there. I'd have Duncan Taylor in the centres and Stander for Robshaw. Webb for Murray if he'd played more.

koneguitarist

No real arguments ref players picked. 

With regard to @sev112 Jonathan Davies was YC jumping for ball didn't touch players legs, but caught player not ball. If you play the player in the air, then you run the risk of a YC. Same with Leigh Halfpenny on Sergio Parisse a couple of years back. If two players jump into each other both going for the ball it's a fair contest, even if one is hurt, not quite sure how Watson could get out of this one to be honest. All you have to do is look at the video. Now remember intent has nothing to do with it, it's the outcome that matters. Watsons hands miss the ball completely and one hand catches Fickou in face, he then compounds this by wrapping both hands across the face. Now you can say he doesn't gouge the player, and I ain't either, but then neither did Ashton or Francis, who both got cited and banned. 

lloyd

kjdowd;1010934" said:

[quote="Gassage;1010895"]Let's be positive:

Team of Tourny



Mine:



Hogg



Watson

Campagnaro

Roberts

North



Biggar

Murray



Evans

Guiardho

Nel

Kruis

Itoje

Robshaw (maybe CJ Stander)

Haskell (maybe Hardie)

Vunipola

Not many arguments there. I'd have Duncan Taylor in the centres and Stander for Robshaw. Webb for Murray if he'd played more.
[/quote]

I like Stander over Robshaw to be honest, but the rest are bang on Robshaw has had a good tournament though, never a 7 and in himdsight the captaincy might have hung too heavy on him.

lloyd

Gassage;1010903" said:

I am getting very bored with Barnes pedantry and also Nigel's (who is a friend) narcissism.



Poite and Garces are the kiddies at the moment. Glen Jackson, given time, will be great too and I have no issue with CJ and never will.



Clancy- words fail me.

This. By the shovel full, I'm hoping you're right about Jackson, more ex players reffing would improve standards IMO (although Calncy played to a decent level I think? Or is that Rolland?).

I'd love to see some ex props come in, they might sort out the scrum lottery.

kjdowd

lloyd;1011021" said:

[quote="Gassage;1010903"]I am getting very bored with Barnes pedantry and also Nigel's (who is a friend) narcissism.



Poite and Garces are the kiddies at the moment. Glen Jackson, given time, will be great too and I have no issue with CJ and never will.



Clancy- words fail me.

This. By the shovel full, I'm hoping you're right about Jackson, more ex players reffing would improve standards IMO (although Calncy played to a decent level I think? Or is that Rolland?).

I'd love to see some ex props come in, they might sort out the scrum lottery.[/quote]

They'd never keep up (I say this as an ex prop..)

lloyd

kjdowd said:

lloyd;1011021" said:

[quote="Gassage;1010903"]I am getting very bored with Barnes pedantry and also Nigel's (who is a friend) narcissism.



Poite and Garces are the kiddies at the moment. Glen Jackson, given time, will be great too and I have no issue with CJ and never will.



Clancy- words fail me.

This. By the shovel full, I'm hoping you're right about Jackson, more ex players reffing would improve standards IMO (although Calncy played to a decent level I think? Or is that Rolland?).

I'd love to see some ex props come in, they might sort out the scrum lottery.[/quote]

They'd never keep up (I say this as an ex prop..)

Maybe as a full ref, I'd welcome them running on at scrum time though. Nigel Owens interviewed by Brian Moore this week says that he honestly is concentrating too hard on other things to miss crooked feeds, something that he's said before in 2013. In 3 years surely someone could say, if you have too much on why not have The TV ref watch the feeds and buzz the ref on the pitch when it's crooked? That is an instant, free and wouldn't slow the game down at all fix to something that every rugby fan I've ever spoken to would like fixed.

Rocker

crunchman;1010615" said:

@lloyd - you seem to have too much time on your hands

Time better spent with a guitar in your hand???

lloyd

Rocker said:

crunchman;1010615" said:

@lloyd - you seem to have too much time on your hands

Time better spent with a guitar in your hand???

If they let me take a guitar to work, I would....

kjdowd

lloyd said:

Rocker said:

crunchman;1010615" said:

@lloyd - you seem to have too much time on your hands

Time better spent with a guitar in your hand???

If they let me take a guitar to work, I would....

but then you'd be David Brent, so swings and roundabouts