Gordon Smith upgrades?

markv

I would be interested in theFB's collected wisdom concerning what might be good upgrades for my Gordon Smith GS2/60.

I bought it new about 4 years ago and it's still completely stock - but none of the hardware is branded, so I have no idea whether it's really much good or not - and I can't really tell from just looking, I'm not experienced enough.

I like the guitar and am basically happy with it but am inevitably wondering if a tweak here or there might just add that little something extra. The usual question is "what do you want" and the short answer is, more of the same I guess - just better!

Yes, I know this is all a bit vague - I'm basically after information about the current components and what knowledge people have about how they compare to known good quality alternatives.

The biggest and most obvious change would be to the pickups. The current pickups are GS humbuckers, medium-high output I would say (about 9K according to their old web site iirc?), and have coil taps. They have plastic covers rather than metal ones - John Smith advised me that as well as costing extra, the metal covers would "dull and diminish the output", so I didn't go for that.

If I was to replace them I'd be going for a UK maker like Bare Knuckle, Creamery, Oil City, Mojo etc. From an aesthetic point of view I would prefer metal covers. Does anyone know how these kind of alternatives compare with the stock GS pickups?

The bridge is a tunamatic and stop tail, tuners are unbranded chrome and the electrics ... dunno, although the pots look very small which somehow doesn't say "quality" to me. Does anyone know what any of these components are (or probably are) and is there benefit in replacing them?

Thanks in advance for your thoughts, opinions and experience!

TTony

Assuming that the guitar is set-up to taste, and you're enjoying the overall look & feel, then ...

Does it stay in tune?  If so, the tuners are doing their job and not slipping.

Does it intonate properly?  If so, the bridge is doing its basic job.

Do the tone & vol pots work?  Are they noise-free?  Is there a decent roll-off in vol & tone?  If so, the pots are doing their job,

You could spend a fortune on it, but add no value, and possibly gain little extra enjoyment.  

When modding a guitar, I always look at the pick-ups first.  But that's just my own particular fetish.  In VFM terms, Oil City & Mojo are both great places to start.  BKP are a lot more expensive for little extra return.

strtdv

Pickups are the first thing I'd change, particularly their horrible looking plastic covered humbucker.
IMO they let an otherwise great guitar down

GuitarMonkey

You might find you need to do a bit of routing to fit other pickups. John's routs are notoriously tight.

horse

I put some humbucker size p90s from oil city in my old one, and have been very pleased with the upgrade. Had to change pots at the same time, but at least that kept the original loom intact

http://i1108.photobucket.com/albums/h411/tramp5/IMG_20150614_141518429_HDR.jpg

markv

Thanks guys, useful info all.

@TTony - wise words mate and yes, I don't want to spend unnecessarily, hence interested in what people can tell me about the stock hardware. It drifts very slightly out of tune over a day or two, would you say that was slipping?

@srtdv - the guitar itself is matt black so the black plastic covers don't stand out too badly ... but chrome covers would be nicer. But how much do they affect the tone?

@GuitarMonkey - yes, I already discovered that when trying to work out why the bridge pickup wouldn't go down any more than very high up! Commendable in terms of keeping as much wood as possible I suppose ...

@horse - why did you need to change the pots - was there something wrong or do P90s need different value pots? And did you have to get rid of any more wood underneath them?

horse

I doubt the covers make that much difference to tone. I was surprised how 'hand carved'/ hacked mine was in the pickup cavaties, but it was early 90s. I changed the pots cos the originals were more complex for the coil taps, and decided it would be best to keep that all in one piece in case i wanted to change back in future. I'd only change something if you know what you are trying to achieve, rather than because you wonder what could be better - everything on that guitar is already 'good enough'. What amp are you playing through / what tone are you looking for etc?

Jalapeno

horse said:

I put some humbucker size p90s from oil city in my old one, and have been very pleased with the upgrade. Had to change pots at the same time, but at least that kept the original loom intact

http://i1108.photobucket.com/albums/h411/tramp5/IMG_20150614_141518429_HDR.jpg

Did the same ...

horse

Snap

rawk100

Id say a pickup upgrade would be the first thing to do. Decent pots with decent capacitors, etc, would be a good upgrade although the change may not be that noticeable to the tone (at least youd be able to cross that upgrade off the list so to speak). Upgrading the bridge, etc, to Tonepros would be a good step. Probably the most important upgrade is a good setup ( if it hasn't been done already).

markv

horse said:

I'd only change something if you know what you are trying to achieve, rather than because you wonder what could be better - everything on that guitar is already 'good enough'. What amp are you playing through / what tone are you looking for etc?

You're right of course - I'm just wanting to fiddle for the sake of it really! I normally swap out pickups on my guitars and this one has stayed untouched for the longest, which says something I suppose. Still ... "good enough" doesn't really inspire does it?

I think the pickups are a little unrefined (at least compared to the sound in my head - of course it could just be the player that's unrefined), so I'd be wanting a sound that's a bit less harsh, a bit smoother perhaps. Amp is a Hughes & Kettner Tubemeister 18 combo.

rawk100 said:

Probably the most important upgrade is a good setup ( if it hasn't been done already).

Good point, I've done my best and it feels OK to me but would probably benefit from attention from someone who actually knows what they're doing.

rawk100 said:

Upgrading the bridge, etc, to Tonepros would be a good step.

I assume the bridge and tail piece (whatever they are) are a standard size and so Tonepros would fit? Anyone done this?

Sassafras

If it ain't broke don't fix it.

But I realise that's a very old fashioned outlook.

boogieman

I had a Graduate 60 for years. The wiring is quite complex on a GS, what with dual coil taps and their odd set up with the tone controls (8 is "normal", 9-10 acts as a treble boost). If you do change the pots, make sure you take lots of pictures and make notes before you attempt anything. I'm guessing the pots are decent quality, the ones on mine didn't give any trouble. The p/u switch was prone to cutting out without a regular dose of switch cleaner though.

The tuners are made by Van Gent and are very good units IMO. I seriously doubt it's worth changing them. I had the all in one bridge/stop tail unit on mine and it was a very well made lump of metal. Again I wouldn't see much value in any change to the standard units.

The pickups are definitely the weak spot, sort of a thinner sounding version of regular humbuckers, almost a P90 tone, but they still have a certain charm and they cut through well. Mine sounded more like an SG than the LP that it looked like.

Ultimately, GS's are quite crudely made guitars and they never sell s/h for anything like decent money. Certainly not worth pouring a load of money into it. Personally I'd leave it all stock and just make sure it's had a decent set-up.

markv

Thanks @boogieman, I wish I could award more than 1 wisdom for this!

boogieman said:

The p/u switch was prone to cutting out without a regular dose of switch cleaner though.

Mine's been cutting out for a while, no obvious bad connections. In desparation I sprayed it with switch cleaner last week (not really expecting much) and hey presto! Instantly working again. What's that about?

boogieman said:

Ultimately, GS's are quite crudely made guitars and they never sell s/h for anything like decent money. Certainly not worth pouring a load of money into it. Personally I'd leave it all stock and just make sure it's had a decent set-up.

They're clearly not put together in quite the same way as a PRS (I could get splinters running my fingers round the inside of the pickup cavities) but that doesn't necessarily mean they're not worth an upgrade, surely?

Only concern is that a decent set of pickups from (say) Mojo or Oil City, plus the electronics (as @horse suggested, probably worth keeping the original loom intact) is probably of the order of £200. Hmmm ...

horse

I didn't mean 'good enough' as a compromise - I gigged and recorded with mine stock (without even realising it had coiltaps) for a year or two in the 90s. I think the coiltaps sound pretty good and the humbucker sound is ok if maybe slightly bland. I mainly changed the pickups to give it a fresh appeal and because I was getting tempted to buy a solid body guitar with p90s - so this was a cheaper way to kill 2 birds

boogieman

Ultimately it's your guitar, you can do what you want with it! >:D<
All I meant is that you could pour a load of money into it, but you won't ever see it back as GS's just don't attract that much attention used. Mine took ages to shift, even though I dropped the price ridiculously low compared to what it had cost me. Eventually I ended up trading it against another guitar. If it's going to be a definite keeper, you could do worse than change out the pickups but I honestly wouldn't do much else. Or just leave it stock and enjoy it for what it is.
Edit. Mojo pickups would be my choice if you do decide to change. Marc does some awesome work.

frankus

I got a GS1 recently, alls I did was replace the front mounted socket with a varitone and put a side jack on it.

I love them for their utility

fastonebaz

@markv just found this old thread.   Oddly enough  i have a gordon smith gs2 deluxe and even more oddly have also been playing it through a tubemeister 18!  Did you change anything on yours in the end? 

I swapped my pups for a JB and a 59 but they sounded terrible with their electronics.  I fitted the original pups back amd then later replaced the pots with fancy CTS 500k ones.  

The tone is "ok" perhaps a bit bright now but I'm stuck for what to do next.  I like the guitar but i don't love it. 

Funkfingers

I recently worked on a G-S Graduate. It had already been modified once with replacement no-name chrome covered humbuckers and a passive mid booster device. (Similar to the Villex GMB.) Arguments rage about whether this device really boosts anything or just exposes more midrange by attenuating other frequency bands. What the device definitely did do, however, was equalise the output level of the series and split coil sounds.

markv

@fastonebaz - no, I didn't in the end. It's one of the few guitars I haven't swapped pickups out on, which must say something. I realised I was perfectly happy with the way it sounded, in the end - plus it meant I could use the budget for a bunch more pedals :-)

That said, yesterday I played a very nice Les Paul Junior and now I've got a fancy for some P90s ...

fastonebaz

Interesting.  I think I'm likely to leave the original pups in it now and just settle for those.  I think maybe whats missing is a slightly thicker body or direct mounted pickups but that's a whole different guitar!  Cheers