Just recovered from reading about an expensive pedal

Dave_Mc

Yeah I just registered on FSB so I could keep an eye on what's going on, I don't really do electronics either- I'm interested theoretically, but practically I'm useless at it. IIRC you can't see attached files without registering (and most schematics and gut shots are posted that way).

And yeah all those words TGP uses about expensive pedals normally work with cheaper pedals too. My cheapo pedals clean up fine with the guitar volume knob.

ThePrettyDamned

Thing is, what would be genuinely interesting would be a full on solid state preamp, or even micro valve one (if you think it would help - perhaps it would?). Amt have some crackers, with great cleans, and excellent mid and high gain tones modelling a lot of amps. Although they work as drives, they work better as a preamp.

If a boutique guy did that, they could easily charge the kind of money being discussed here, maybe even more? And it would give a very true representation of a preamp, as opposed to just a tweaked drive circuit that basically has its tone rolled off.

I just got my Ts, switches bass boost on into a clean amp and set the gain high. Rolled the tone knob back to about 1/4 up and played. It sounded really, really close to the demos on YouTube. It's a visual sound route 66, and cleaned up in a similar way (ie not very well). Obviously, I don't know the 'feel' of the other pedal in terms of responsiveness to different pickups but it does make me wonder whether it's a modded screamer. A bad monkey might actually be a bit better with fully adjustable bass...

Dave_Mc

I don't really have any experience with the preamp (or valve) type pedals- the other guys will know way better than I do )

And yeah there are things which might justify boutique prices but they require a fair bit of know-how to implement. )

There's a good chance it's a clone, or a slightly tweaked clone. I dunno what it's a clone of, but yeah. I know when I heard the jan ray I thought it was one of the transparent-type drives (i guessed bluesbreaker, turned out to be a timmy, not a million miles away in terms of tone if not in terms of circuit- some people, including the person who reversed it, guessed right), so you can definitely make an educated guess. Of course, as ICBM rightly said earlier in the thread, you can change the tone totally by strategically changing one component, so it's not concrete proof either if it sounds (or doesn't) like something which already exists, either. )

funstuie

You can bid on (what looks like an extension cab) a Dumble here:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1980s-Original-Dumble-1x12-Cabinet-Howard-Dumble-Boutique-Amplifier-Not-A-Clone-/321279938084?pt=UK_MusicalInstr_Amplifiers_RL&hash=item4acdc6ce24

Starting price £10k

dindude

ThePrettyDamned said:

The people who degooped it won't say what it is

If they went to the trouble of de-gooping they were likely looking to expose a sham. That they haven't revealed it might actually mean there's nothing really to say! Heaven forbid.

In other news, just heard that EHX are releasing a cheap as chips Klon based pedal, they even name check it in the blurb. 

So, upfront rip-off but cheap vs under the radar and overpriced, it's just the way the pedal industry is, choose what you want to buy, I really don't know why people get so uptight about it all.

http://www.ehx.com/products/soul-food

Dave_Mc

I'm actually sceptical that the EHX one is a klone... I could be wrong of course. But they name check it so much, yet don't actually say it's a klone, which makes me wonder if it's not a different circuit (entirely possibly a clone of something else) which sounds similar to the klon.

Of course maybe they're really chancing their arm and it is a klone.

To be fair, the "under the radard and overpriced" normally also includes "unfounded claims it's original". Which is what most of the people are complaining about. It's what I'm complaining about, too. It's not quite the same, in other words... one is cheeky, one is dishonest  (allegedly, in my opinion, etc.). The klon also is currently not available, which also is worth pointing out.

I'm also not sure you can say the dumbloid is original considering what happened- as far as i'm aware, it wasn't the usual people doing the degooping and reverse-engineering, who normally reveal what the thing is regardless- they just want to know the truth. Considering it was people who had form in moving the goalposts and changing what they said throughout the thread (and the last thread), silence probably means it's more like to be a clone than not. I could well be wrong on that, though, I struggled to follow what the hell was going on since that thread (and the previous one) was such a flustercuck. )

guitargeek62

EHX: How not to sound like a Klon.

ThePrettyDamned

I thought the klon had too many parts to squeeze into a small enclosure, so maybe the ehx isn't one. Perhaps an inspired by. Also, klons are discontinued, so I can't really argue against that - sorta like the dude who's making boss hm2s. They don't exist anymore (sadly) so I'm pretty cool with someone continuing the legacy.

I was under the impression they were degooping to see what it was. The fact they've not said anything, but admitted they've flipped them on and want to build a clone tells me it's already a clone, but they don't want to lose value. I might be totally wrong, and I hope I am.

It'll be interesting if the ehx is a part for part klon and people review it as being boring or a bit naff, which does happen with lower cost od pedals quite a bit (in some cases, rightly so).

wave100

How do you de-goop something anyway?

Not that I am remotely interested in trying it, or indeed owning a pedal which requires it....

Dave_Mc

^ I think there's info on how to do it on freestompboxes website. Bunch of ways, probably. I seem to remember (don't quote me) "attack it with a craft knife" being an option )

ThePrettyDamned said:

I thought the klon had too many parts to squeeze into a small enclosure, so maybe the ehx isn't one. Perhaps an inspired by. Also, klons are discontinued, so I can't really argue against that - sorta like the dude who's making boss hm2s. They don't exist anymore (sadly) so I'm pretty cool with someone continuing the legacy.

I was under the impression they were degooping to see what it was. The fact they've not said anything, but admitted they've flipped them on and want to build a clone tells me it's already a clone, but they don't want to lose value. I might be totally wrong, and I hope I am.

It'll be interesting if the ehx is a part for part klon and people review it as being boring or a bit naff, which does happen with lower cost od pedals quite a bit (in some cases, rightly so).

Yeah )

I think you can fit a klon into a mini case. I seem to remember juan solo building some. That was with full-sized parts, too, I'm guessing the EHX will be SMD.

Catthan

I work in R&D myself and there is one bit which imho is important and that's the time, effort and intellect involved in taking smth "basic" like a TS9 and making it sound like a Dumble of sorts. Taking this into account i think some increase inthe price is reasonable, assuming this pedal stands up to the hype. whether $600 is reasonable or not is a different matter i think; i am guessing that people would react if this cost even just 50 bucks more than the TS9 it's based on. but i think that if sb managed to take a TS9 and make it sound anything close to a Dumble then that pedal should get a higher price to reflect the inovation and creativity involved in the process. $600 is still awfully high tho but if there are people willing to pay it then who am i to judge. If the pedal is trully that good then it's still cheaper than getting a Dumble clone,let alone an actual Dumble.

timhulio

ThePrettyDamned said:

I thought the klon had too many parts to squeeze into a small enclosure, 

It's quite possible - this box is MXR sized. This PCB layout didn't take ridiculously long either. People have also put Klones in smaller enclosures, but with 1/8 watt resistors. 

ThePrettyDamned

Catthan;111279" said:

I work in R&D myself and there is one bit which imho is important and that's the time, effort and intellect involved in taking smth "basic" like a TS9 and making it sound like a Dumble of sorts. Taking this into account i think some increase inthe price is reasonable, assuming this pedal stands up to the hype. whether $600 is reasonable or not is a different matter i think; i am guessing that people would react if this cost even just 50 bucks more than the TS9 it's based on. but i think that if sb managed to take a TS9 and make it sound anything close to a Dumble then that pedal should get a higher price to reflect the inovation and creativity involved in the process. $600 is still awfully high tho but if there are people willing to pay it then who am i to judge. If the pedal is trully that good then it's still cheaper than getting a Dumble clone,let alone an actual Dumble.

Only 200 dollars less than a ceriatone Dumble lunchbox amp.

Catthan

^ well yeah, that's definitely cheaper than I thought. i mean the clone. My point is that if the pedal is any good in what's trying to do, and also better than other Dumble pedals then it should be more expensive. Simply because the designer figured out how to do it whereas others couldn't. But $600 is stupid-high indeed.

juansolo

I got an infraction for my first post on TGP.

I got my second 6 months after I posted the thing that they took exception to (the thread got bounced).

Though I expect I'll cop another infraction shortly... It's almost like they're daring me...

I mainly go on there now out of morbid curiosity. The recent rate the JanRay's tone without criticising the circuit, Great Meat Pie, and antagonistic pedal builders threads are all worth a read for all the wrong reasons. I can't bring myself to read the Dumbloid thread... I just can't.

juansolo

timhulio said:

ThePrettyDamned said:

I thought the klon had too many parts to squeeze into a small enclosure, 

It's quite possible - this box is MXR sized. This PCB layout didn't take ridiculously long either. People have also put Klones in smaller enclosures, but with 1/8 watt resistors. 

Pff, easy*

*actually it isn't. I really don't like doing them and shan't be doing any more!

Dave_Mc said:

I think you can fit a klon into a mini case. I seem to remember juan solo building some. That was with full-sized parts, too, I'm guessing the EHX will be SMD.

You could do it with full 1/4 watt resistors if you wanted if you lifted one end. It'd be a 'mare for shorting though.

Dead easy in an MXR sized enclosure though.

Dave_Mc

^^Aw go on. I always think "I'll be the bigger man and stay out of it" and that lasts for about a day.

^ Thanks. Yeah I thought i'd seen you selling some smaller ones on the bkp classifieds forum. I couldn't build a basic pedal in a massive case, lol.

juansolo

Dave_Mc said:

I'm actually sceptical that the EHX one is a klone... I could be wrong of course. But they name check it so much, yet don't actually say it's a klone, which makes me wonder if it's not a different circuit (entirely possibly a clone of something else) which sounds similar to the klon.

I'm with you on that. EHX are innovators not cloners. It'd likely be a first for them if it was a clone. Indeed they're usually on the receiving end of cloning. After the tube screamer I bet the next most cloned circuit is the muff.

On that subject, I had a friend over recently trying out a load of ODs. I plugged one in and didn't tell him what it was, he really liked it. Sometimes, it's just the box, pretty pictures or knowing what it is that colours your opinion of a pedal. It was a bone stock tube screamer.

juansolo

Dave_Mc said:

^^Aw go on. I always think "I'll be the bigger man and stay out of it" and that lasts for about a day.

^ Thanks. Yeah I thought i'd seen you selling some smaller ones on the bkp classifieds forum. I couldn't build a basic pedal in a massive case, lol.

Yup it's my old one and is still for sale actually. I've built myself a Klonpressor (Lovesqueeze into Klone) that's replaced it.

ThePrettyDamned

It's been done - some guy on the thread has made clones of it, and is taking orders.

It's painful to watch - blatant stealing. Which, of course, supports the theory it's just a slightly tweaked clone of something else. Otherwise, surely they'd feel some guilt at cloning?

Nice work btw @juansolo.