EU - We're staying in

axisus

I'd say that the scaremongering has won hands down thus far. 

I just wish that useless wet lettuce Cameron had done a better deal in negotiations. If the EU don't want us to go he should have really used that to our advantage.

fretmeister

Trump has confirmed he is in favour of us leaving.

That should help end the Brexit campaign.

quarky

According to the betting markets, it was decided a few weeks ago in favour of staying in.

On the one hand, look how that worked out on Leicester, on the other, betting odds are right more often than they are wrong.

jellyroll

Is that woman from Wigan still running the EU show?

Grunfeld

fretmeister said:

Trump has confirmed he is in favour of us leaving.

That should help end the Brexit campaign.

As it happens, because I know jack sh*t about politics this is kind of how I make my decision.  If Rupert Murdoch AND Donald Trump want us to leave THEN it only makes sense to stay.  And that is now how I'll vote.  Because those two are nasty loons, so what they want has got to be a bad thing.

Fretwired

Just like Labour were going to win the GE. I'm not sure - the EU offering travel to people in Turkey will allow UKIP and co to stir the pot and UKIP have done well in the local elections.

I think it's closer than many people think. Two events I've been to had polls and the Brexit crowd won by a small margin - these were business people.

rossyamaha

I was split until I read an interview with Corbyn who is for us staying. Long term leaving may be better for us but he got across the more heads are better than one argument and made the point of any bad feeling about staying was all because of Cameron being useless. A stronger leader would be able to negotiate or membership far better and make being part of the EU a no brainer. Unfortunately we currently don't have that luxury. 

jellyroll

rossyamaha said:

I was split until I read an interview with Corbyn who is for us staying. Long term leaving may be better for us but he got across the more heads are better than one argument and made the point of any bad feeling about staying was all because of Cameron being useless. A stronger leader would be able to negotiate or membership far better and make being part of the EU a no brainer. Unfortunately we currently don't have that luxury. 

But even if Corbyn was that "stronger leader" (which I very much doubt) negotiating at the margins for a bit off our subsidy here or a carve out from such and such an arrangement there doesn't address the key point in my mind which is "trading alliance = good; political union = bad"

I want a UK government accountable to the UK people running the UK.

Strat_a_tat_tat

Am I the only one that thinks the phrases... ' strong leader'... and 'Jeremy Corbyn'... are like opposite poles of a magnet (Alnico V, of course).

crunchman

There is a while to go yet.

The government statistics people have been told that they have to publish the number of active NI numbers from EU migrants that the government has been trying to hide.  That could well end up showing double the number of EU immigrants the government has been claiming so far.

There could be more TTIP leaks.

There is still time for the whole Turkey situation to have a significant effect.

There might be another major terrorist incident.

Does Greece have another deadline for debt payments before 23rd June that they will miss?

joeyowen

but guuuuyyyssss, the miiigraannnttttsss

Snap

There is a very good for and against article in this month's GQ mag, which is the best thing i've read so far. Very clearly presents the arguments for both sides, without bias.

It also explodes some of the myths and bluster being put about by both sides of the argument.

On balance, I think I will be voting stay in, just.

Cameron actually achieved more than he is being credited for in his renegotiated EU terms. He did gain some good concessions on benefits for migrants.

Fretwired

Snap said:

Cameron actually achieved more than he is being credited for in his renegotiated EU terms. He did gain some good concessions on benefits for migrants.

Cameron has achieved absolutely nothing as his so called deal is no such thing .. it's not legally binding.

http://uk.businessinsider.com/camerons-eu-deal-not-legally-binding-2016-2

Phil_aka_Pip

Grunfeld said:

As it happens, because I know jack sh*t about politics this is kind of how I make my decision.  If Rupert Murdoch AND Donald Trump want us to leave THEN it only makes sense to stay.  And that is now how I'll vote.  Because those two are nasty loons, so what they want has got to be a bad thing.

But you could say the same thing, substituting "D Cameron", "G Osborne" and "remain", and it would still be true

chillidoggy

It mattered not whether it was Cameron, Corbyn, or Winston Churchill doing any negotiations with the EU. The results would still have been the same - a big fat 'Nein'.

I would much prefer to be in a revised EU than out, but EU v.2 ain't gonna happen, so the choice is stark.

Fretwired

Grunfeld said:

fretmeister said:

Trump has confirmed he is in favour of us leaving.

That should help end the Brexit campaign.

As it happens, because I know jack sh*t about politics this is kind of how I make my decision.  If Rupert Murdoch AND Donald Trump want us to leave THEN it only makes sense to stay.  And that is now how I'll vote.  Because those two are nasty loons, so what they want has got to be a bad thing.

And Tony Benn was for leaving. Ask yourself whether you want to be part of a United States of Europe. Whether you're happy that unelected and unaccountable bureaucrats make decisions and laws that affect your life. Are you happy that the UK's parliament will be sidelined. And do you want want to replace the pound with the Euro? If you are then vote remain, if not vote to leave. As Tony Benn said the EU is building an empire and we all know where that could lead.

english_bob

Phil_aka_Pip said:

Grunfeld said:

As it happens, because I know jack sh*t about politics this is kind of how I make my decision.  If Rupert Murdoch AND Donald Trump want us to leave THEN it only makes sense to stay.  And that is now how I'll vote.  Because those two are nasty loons, so what they want has got to be a bad thing.

But you could say the same thing, substituting "D Cameron", "G Osborne" and "remain", and it would still be true

This. It's much easier to make a decision when all the arseholes are voting the same way. 

With Brexit you're siding with a bastard whichever way you vote. 

CabbageCat

axisus said:

I'd say that the scaremongering has won hands down thus far. 

Presumably you mean that the "in" scaremongering is beating the "out" scaremongering?

PC_Dave

I fucking hate the term "Brexit".

axisus

crunchman said:

There could be more TTIP leaks.

TTIP has only just come across my radar - shocking stuff! This is what we are signing up to with the EU, secretive and harmful dodgy deals.

english_bob

axisus said:

crunchman said:

There could be more TTIP leaks.

TTIP has only just come across my radar - shocking stuff! This is what we are signing up to with the EU, secretive and harmful dodgy deals.

Although I believe Cameron is not opposed to it, meaning that if we left the EU and sought a new trade agreement with the US we'd be looking at a very similar agreement all to ourselves. 

The more is known about TTIP the more opposition there has been across Europe. A united Europe pushed by its electorates to reject TTIP is likely to be in a far stronger negotiating position than the UK alone could hope to be.