Conspiracy theories

quarky

Don't forget, it isn't just dilution, you need to bang the solution on a board three time to give it the homeopathic powers.

viz

quarky said:

Don't forget, it isn't just dilution, you need to bang the solution on a board three time to give it the homeopathic powers.

Yes, exactly. That's the succussion. It adds to the placebo effect. You can even buy machines to do the dilution and succussion for you 100 times.

quarky

I think it is fine for people to choose to take homeopathic water. What is not fine, is giving it to their kids/pets when there is a requirement for real medicine, or doctors prescribing it for serious problems (or vets at all).

viz

I agree. And although dogs have been shown to respond to placebos, their owners have been shown to be even more susceptible - so they believe the dog is getting healed more than the dog itself does, which is cruel to the dog.

Normal water is also homeopathic of course, as it has possibly flowed past fields of lovely arnica plants gently waving in the breeze next to the river in the past, and has long diluted and shaken off all traces of said arnica, as well as any other plants, bridges, ducks and other potentially though unproven healing things, so if you can buy some water from the chemist or have a doctor give you a glass of it, it should work as well as homeopathic arnica.

ICBM

I read somewhere recently that if you take a glass of water at random from anywhere on Earth, on average it contains at least one water molecule which passed through a dinosaur. How this strange piece of information was calculated I don't know, but I don't find it unbelievable given how many dinosaurs there were and how long they were around.

By the same token it probably means that it's a near certainty that every glass of water contains a water molecule which has passed through an insect, since there are more of them and they've been around even longer.

Which explains why we're all afraid of spiders.

octatonic

scrumhalf said:

Phil_aka_Pip said:

menamestom said:

Homeopathy is a good one too.

If homeopathy worked, you could get pissed for life by diluting the first bottle of whisky you ever bought.

We'd also all be drinking wee-wee much of the time.

and think of all the poisons we'd be consuming.

Roundup is used on vegetables but because dosage actually matters it is relatively harmless if you wash your food.

Homeopathy purposefully ignores dosage.

Sambostar

Vegetables aren't sprayed with Roundup.  Roundup is glyphosate and is a non selective, systemic weed killer.  It would kill them if you sprayed them with glyphosate.  Possibly sprayed with a selective insecticide but unlikely.

The main poison is the pill and it's why we are all growing man boobs and have shrinking balls.

quarky

Sambostar said: 

The main poison is the pill and it's why we are all growing man boobs and have shrinking balls.

I thought that was just getting old

HAL9000

I'll just leave this here...

MrBump

Sambostar said:

Why is ginger an anagram of a derogatory word historically used to describe black people?  Co incidence?  I think not.

If you haven't seen it already, check out the Tim Minchin song about that.

ESBlonde

TheMarlin said:

I beloved The McCanns killed their daughter Madeleine (may well have been an accident), stored her body for a few days while getting the story straight, then concocted cock-and-bull story that she was taken....and disposed of her corpse.

Lots of evidence to back this up.

Chemtrails. When I was a kid, I used to watch the vapour trails as they disappeared/vaporised once the aircraft had passed. Now, they persisting over tremendous distances, and spread out.

The sky above my house looks like a game of giant noughts and crossed most days...
Is it a spray? Are they metal powders? No idea. Don't have the capability to test this. I just know it's wildly different to what happened in the sky during the 70's and 80's.

Marlin

Your memory fails you.

Battle of Britain Summer 1940, I think everyone was too busy to add spare chemicals to the fuel whilst fighting for thier lives, but theory is a wonderful thing.

https://jazzroc.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/battle-of-britain-london-contrails.jpg

octatonic

Sambostar said:

Vegetables aren't sprayed with Roundup.  Roundup is glyphosate and is a non selective, systemic weed killer.  It would kill them if you sprayed them with glyphosate.  Possibly sprayed with a selective insecticide but unlikely.

The main poison is the pill and it's why we are all growing man boobs and have shrinking balls.

Brain fart- yes you are right.

But the point stands- it isn't roundup but pesticides are used and we consume them in very, very tiny doses that don't kill us.

MrBump

<girds loins in preparation for the abuse and vitriol reserved for those disagreeing with the prevailing theory in this room>

Homeopathy and a homeopathic remedy are different.  The remedy is the dilution that everyone (probably quite rightly) gets all excited about because of it being contrary to scientific thinking.

Homeopaths (or at least good ones) are supposed to take an holistic approach - and I know how crap that sounds, but that's just what it is.

I've had more positive outcomes from visiting homeopaths for certain things than I have from visiting my local GP.  And there's a myriad of reasons for that - including the GP having too little time, too little funding, me paying for the homeopaths time etc.  But the end result was that - for me - the homeopathic treatment was absolutely the correct treatment.

</gird loins>

lloyd

MrBump said:

<girds loins in preparation for the abuse and vitriol reserved for those disagreeing with the prevailing theory in this room>

Homeopathy and a homeopathic remedy are different.  The remedy is the dilution that everyone (probably quite rightly) gets all excited about because of it being contrary to scientific thinking.

Homeopaths (or at least good ones) are supposed to take an holistic approach - and I know how crap that sounds, but that's just what it is.

I've had more positive outcomes from visiting homeopaths for certain things than I have from visiting my local GP.  And there's a myriad of reasons for that - including the GP having too little time, too little funding, me paying for the homeopaths time etc.  But the end result was that - for me - the homeopathic treatment was absolutely the correct treatment.

</gird loins>

What did you have? Treatment that is.

Drew_TNBD

MrBump said:

<girds loins in preparation for the abuse and vitriol reserved for those disagreeing with the prevailing theory in this room>

Homeopathy and a homeopathic remedy are different.  The remedy is the dilution that everyone (probably quite rightly) gets all excited about because of it being contrary to scientific thinking.

Homeopaths (or at least good ones) are supposed to take an holistic approach - and I know how crap that sounds, but that's just what it is.

I've had more positive outcomes from visiting homeopaths for certain things than I have from visiting my local GP.  And there's a myriad of reasons for that - including the GP having too little time, too little funding, me paying for the homeopaths time etc.  But the end result was that - for me - the homeopathic treatment was absolutely the correct treatment.

</gird loins>

Nah. If that's your experience, you're entitled to express your viewpoint on it.

Doesn't mean we all have to agree.

But here's the thing - science doesn't care about anecdotal evidence. It cares about things that can be measured. If something *cannot* be measured, then it's probably safer than not, to assume that it's a load of BS.

MrBump

@lloyd gastric problems - shocking heartburn etc.

Homeopath talked about my diet, lifestyle, behaviours etc (and yes - suggested a remedy also).  GP prescribed super strong antacids.

The first solution was the better on.

Again, I'm not sold on the remedy, but the outcome of the process was the right one for me.

MrBump

Drew_fx said: MrBump said: <girds loins in preparation for the abuse and vitriol reserved for those disagreeing with the prevailing theory in this room>
Homeopathy and a homeopathic remedy are different.  The remedy is the dilution that everyone (probably quite rightly) gets all excited about because of it being contrary to scientific thinking.
Homeopaths (or at least good ones) are supposed to take an holistic approach - and I know how crap that sounds, but that's just what it is.
I've had more positive outcomes from visiting homeopaths for certain things than I have from visiting my local GP.  And there's a myriad of reasons for that - including the GP having too little time, too little funding, me paying for the homeopaths time etc.  But the end result was that - for me - the homeopathic treatment was absolutely the correct treatment.
</gird loins> Nah. If that's your experience, you're entitled to express your viewpoint on it.

Doesn't mean we all have to agree.

But here's the thing - science doesn't care about anecdotal evidence. It cares about things that can be measured. If something *cannot* be measured, then it's probably safer than not, to assume that it's a load of BS.
^ that wasn't always the case, though.  The point you make about science not caring about anecdotal evidence.  There's a really good book by Michael Brooks called At The Edge Of Uncertainty (and he's a proper scientist and everything) where he talks about modern science and how it's become so metricised as to exclude a lot of creative thinking.  And about how anecdotal evidence used to be perfectly acceptable (just hard to measure).

lloyd

MrBump said:

@lloyd gastric problems - shocking heartburn etc.

Homeopath talked about my diet, lifestyle, behaviours etc (and yes - suggested a remedy also).  GP prescribed super strong antacids.

The first solution was the better on.

Again, I'm not sold on the remedy, but the outcome of the process was the right one for me.

Yeah changing your diet will help with gastric problems, I'm surprised the Doc didn't suggest it first.

Roland

ESBlonde said:

TheMarlin said:

Chemtrails. When I was a kid, I used to watch the vapour trails as they disappeared/vaporised once the aircraft had passed. Now, they persisting over tremendous distances, and spread out.

Your memory fails you.

Piston engine exhaust at 15,000 ft behaves differently from jet trails at 20,000, which in turn is different from turbo jet trails at 25,000.

What amuses me about conspiracy theories is why people want to believe them, and how they treat evidence in either direction. There undoubtedly have been some conspiracies which went unnoticed, but fewer than the number of theories which should be debunked. Now if you will excuse me I need to drive Mr Presley to his gig in Leeds.

quarky

MrBump said:

<girds loins in preparation for the abuse and vitriol reserved for those disagreeing with the prevailing theory in this room>

No disagreement from me. It isn't that homeopathy doesn't work, it just works as a placebo at best. And a stopped clock is right twice a day. You doctor was wrong, your quack was right with the diet changes. I don't think that is so unusual. A doctor can generally only go on what you tell him. If is no surprise that someone else can often make a fairly good suggestion in many cases to deal with a lot of problems.