Amp Modelling vs Real Guitar amps Listening test

mattcerve95

Hey guys!

I am conducting research I'm doing on why I believe guitarists should use digital Amp Modellers for guitar playing as opposed to analogue amplifiers. Therefore as part of this research I am conducting a listening test to see investigate whether guitarists are able to distinguish between the sound of real amps and digital amp modellers, Whether guitarists prefer the sound of amp modellers as opposed to analogue amps and whether guitarists agree the sound of amp modellers are appropriate for industry standard guitar playing, so I would like you guys to complete this questionnaire/listening test as it will benefit this research immensley. Also, make sure you carefully read the instructions before starting the test as it provides a link to the audio files to use during the test. Anyhow, thanks a lot guys!

https://www.surveymonkey.co.uk/r/ZCRRZWJ

ADMIN NOTE: This user has been banned for repeatedly spamming us with this survey.

fretmeister

What methodology are you using to remove the influence of a variety of different speakers / headphones / sound cards etc?

Even with the downloadable sound files I can't see how the listening environment is sufficiently controlled for confident results.

darcym

I'm a bit disappointed that, never used the forum before, decided to sign up to help his study (not unreasonable) and spammed the same post in 3 different sections.

fretmeister

If this is for University (as indicated by the duplicate posts) then "why I believe... should" won't get him anywhere.

There's nothing in the description that would allow an opinion to become a theory (proper meaning of the word).

fretmeister

I will have a listen later.

I'm always curious about this sort of thing.

Being a cynic I often wonder if the evangelists for either side would put a latest model Fractal up against a Laney World Series Combo. Or a Mk1 Pod against Dumble.

TTony

Duplicate posts deleted.

paulmapp8306

Ive not listened yet.

I will say though - I think a good way of testing this is not to actually post 2 clips of the same thing.  So dont post a real JCM 800 and a modelled JCM 800.   Post maybe 10 or 12 clips of different types of tone.  Some fender type cleans, some vox type cleans, some marshal crunch, mesa gain etc etc - BUT half from real amps, half from modellers (perhaps different modellers if possible).

That way your not fixating on minor nuances between similar sounds, and trying to guess/analyse which came from which source - but rather  which sounds you prefer.  If someone natural prefers crunchy stuff they may pick a modelled crunch over a real clean for instance - which would actually prove the tech is at a point where its as good as the real thing for general use - and that they TYPE of tone you pick is more important the HOW that tone is generated.  Alternatively, if more people selected the real amps regardless  of the type of tone they are - that proves modellers are still a way from their real amp counterparts.

Ive only ever seen "modelled A amp" v "real A amp".  Id be really interested to see everything mixed up and the results that gave. 

Sassafras

Analogue vs Digital is about more than just sound. It's also about feel, how the amp reacts to the guitar. That won't come across in any listening survey.

Cirrus

fretmeister said: What methodology are you using to remove the influence of a variety of different speakers / headphones / sound cards etc?
Even with the downloadable sound files I can't see how the listening environment is sufficiently controlled for confident results.


Has anyone, in the history of seeing random posts on forums, ever seen a university study that's actually properly thought through?

The problem I have with it is that the concept of "Is it digital/Is it analogue" is a totally moot point. That's not what'll decide if it's good and bad. The best sounding amp is whichever amp you actually have access to that sounds good that day for what you're trying to do. For me that's usually a valve amp, very occasionally it'll be something else. Any discussion about which kind is intrinsically better is to miss the point in quite a spectacular fashion.

Can I confidently say I usually prefer a valve amp? Yes.

Can I confidently pick out the difference between a modeller and an analogue sound in a blind test? No fucking chance. I'd be totally guessing based on my own preconceptions because I've got no idea how the guitarist plays or dials things in.

The other issue is that with a guitar amp, be it real or modelled, there's lots of dimensions to the sound it can produce. What do I mean by that? Well, you could get a JMP50+ 4x12 and compare it to an AxeFX JMP50 model and 4x12 cab impulse. You could dial in the settings so they are totally indistinguishable from each other - no hope of identifying one or the other in a blind test.

Then you switch to a different guitar, and they sound different.

What? How can this be? Well, it's possible for two different pieces of equipment to intersect tonally at certain settings and with certain input signals, but actually sound totally different when the input signal changes.

So, when we're picking a kind of amp to use, we're usually picking it not for how it feels and sounds to play through at one precise point on the controls and with one guitar playing one kind of riff, which is the sort of use that a blind test will typically demonstrate. We're picking it because of its range of sounds, how it responds to our different guitars, practical considerations which are hugely important in the real world - is it reliable? Is it loud enough? Does it fit in the car? Does it leave you entirely at the mercy of the occasional sound-idiot at the mixing desk?

Anyway I'm done being a c*nt, time for my morning coffee. ) I just get bored of this whole "evaluating creative tools as science" shtick because I don't think you ever actually learn anything useful from it.

TTony

Having re-read the opening post, I'd be wary.

It's full of grammatical errors which always alerts my fake-filter (and which I'd really hope were inconsistent with a university thesis standard of language) and then requests that you open/run files from an unknown source.  Further, I'd question whether the proposed approach was correct as an unbiased research investigation.  

fretmeister

Well said.

It either sounds good or it doesn't. I couldn't give a flying fuck at a rolling doughnut about what made the sound if it sounds good.

guitarfishbay

TTony said:

Having re-read the opening post, I'd be wary.

It's full of grammatical errors which always alerts my fake-filter 

It makes me believe they're a music student.

fretmeister

TTony said:

Having re-read the opening post, I'd be wary.

It's full of grammatical errors which always alerts my fake-filter (and which I'd really hope were inconsistent with a university thesis standard of language) and then requests that you open/run files from an unknown source.  Further, I'd question whether the proposed approach was correct as an unbiased research investigation.  

Good point.

I'll let someone else download the files first!

monquixote

"I am conducting research I'm doing on why I believe guitarists should use digital Amp Modellers for guitar playing as opposed to analogue amplifiers."

If that is what you are doing you are not doing scientific research you are setting out to gather evidence for something you already believe.

Roland

darcym said:

I'm a bit disappointed that, never used the forum before, decided to sign up to help his study (not unreasonable) and spammed the same post in 3 different sections.

There are a lot of reasons for new members to join the forum. Getting access to some very knowledgeable musicians is one of them.

Cirrus said:

The problem I have with it is that the concept of "Is it digital/Is it analogue" is a totally moot point. That's not what'll decide if it's good and bad. The best sounding amp is whichever amp you actually have access to that sounds good that day for what you're trying to do.

That would make a much more interesting piece of research, but much harder to investigate than simply posting a survey.

Plectrum

guitarfishbay said:

TTony said:

Having re-read the opening post, I'd be wary.

It's full of grammatical errors which always alerts my fake-filter 

It makes me believe they're a music student.

It's a little early for students to be up and about isn't it?

digitalscream

I have to say, having listened to a lot of the recordings - and given the obvious bias inherent in the question itself - it's pretty easy to pick out the real amps because the mic technique appears to be far worse than any modeller I know of is capable of producing.

On that basis, and with the bias in the question, I'm not going to be taking part.

@mattcerve95 - It's nothing personal, you just need to think a bit more about what would make a good bit of research before you ask other people to invest time in helping; having drawn your conclusion before you've even started your research, it begs the question "Why is it even worth putting 20 minutes of my time in?".

digitalscream

A note to all - the WAV files are genuine, so don't worry about that.

Sassafras

digitalscream said:

A note to all - the WAV files are genuine, so don't worry about that.

That's what they want you to think.

Modulus_Amps

For me valve amps are about the "in the room" dynamics you get when playing a good one properly.

lots of good recorded tones are digital/solid state, so what is the point of this sort of thing anyway, it is so subjective.

I will probably not go through the whole download rigmarole either, this would be much more accessible and sharable if you loaded all the sounds into a video and uploaded it to youtube and got people to vote in the comments.

fields5069

guitarfishbay said:

TTony said:

Having re-read the opening post, I'd be wary.

It's full of grammatical errors which always alerts my fake-filter 

It makes me believe they're a music student.

Funny you should say that. I know a professional drummer and head of department who works somewhere in London. He always finds it nearly impossible to give his students' submitted essays any score at all. Even the native English speakers struggle to put a sentence together.