Amp Modelling vs Real Guitar amps Listening test

guitarfishbay

fields5069 said:

guitarfishbay said:

TTony said:

Having re-read the opening post, I'd be wary.

It's full of grammatical errors which always alerts my fake-filter 

It makes me believe they're a music student.

Funny you should say that. I know a professional drummer and head of department who works somewhere in London. He always finds it nearly impossible to give his students' submitted essays any score at all. Even the native English speakers struggle to put a sentence together.

I know loads of people with music degrees.

My bandmate recently showed me a text exchange between him and a girl he's been on a few dates with, asking for advice as basically they seem to be on a different wavelength with regards to how much texting should be happening between dates, he's the take it slow type and it seems she wants to text all day.  There's an age gap, late 20s to early 20s, and I think there is a big difference in expectation and technology usage especially with messaging...

I pointed out that him suggesting he thought girls wanting 'rest bite' between dates doesn't mean what he thinks it means.  

And that respite wouldn't have been the right word in context either.

fretmeister

guitarfishbay said:

fields5069 said:

guitarfishbay said:

TTony said:

Having re-read the opening post, I'd be wary.

It's full of grammatical errors which always alerts my fake-filter 

It makes me believe they're a music student.

Funny you should say that. I know a professional drummer and head of department who works somewhere in London. He always finds it nearly impossible to give his students' submitted essays any score at all. Even the native English speakers struggle to put a sentence together.

I know loads of people with music degrees.

My bandmate recently showed me a text exchange between him and a girl he's been on a few dates with, asking for advice as basically they seem to be on a different wavelength with regards to how much texting should be happening between dates, he's the take it slow type and it seems she wants to text all day.  There's an age gap, late 20s to early 20s, and I think there is a big difference in expectation and technology usage especially with messaging...

I pointed out that him suggesting he thought girls wanting 'rest bite' between dates doesn't mean what he thinks it means.  

And that respite wouldn't have been the right word in context either.

She's probably on tender hooks.... (sorry)

Drew_TNBD

FROM MY COLD DEAD HANDS!

Bygone_Tones

Its not all about how things sound though is it. Thats only for the listener. For the actual musician there are other deciding factors like how the amp responds to your playing and sounds 'in the room', and whether it inspires you to play. Those few milliseconds of latency have always annoyed me with modelling gear. The responsiveness isnt the same as a 'real' amp. This is why I have always preferrred using valve amps over modellers. While the recorded tone may be indistinguishable to the listener, there is still a big difference when it comes to the guy playing the instrument. At least this has been my experience with them.

 

fretmeister

Bygone_Tones said:

Its not all about how things sound though is it. Thats only for the listener. For the actual musician there are other deciding factors like how the amp responds to your playing and sounds 'in the room', and whether it inspires you to play. Those few milliseconds of latency have always annoyed me with modelling gear. The responsiveness isnt the same as a 'real' amp. This is why I have always preferrred using valve amps over modellers. While the recorded tone may be indistinguishable to the listener, there is still a big difference when it comes to the guy playing the instrument. At least this has been my experience with them.

 

So when you use a cable with a modelling unit, only use half the length you do with a valve amp. That will even it out for you.

ThePrettyDamned

I know someone who did the very same study by using a looper pedal and several amps in a room, connected to the same cab and mic'd then letting the listeners (a mix of guitarists and general public) hear through studio monitors.

Can't remember the conclusion. I did take part, and could hear differences but my favourites were a fairly even split. I liked the dynamics of the solid state cleans more than valve - solid state reproduces in a very unforgiving way and he was a good player so used it to his advantage.

Which is the point, I guess - picking gear that works for you. I like jtm45 for most stuff and 6505 for the heavy stuff because I find it very easy to sound good with them.

Sassafras

fields5069 said:

guitarfishbay said:

TTony said:

Having re-read the opening post, I'd be wary.

It's full of grammatical errors which always alerts my fake-filter 

It makes me believe they're a music student.

Funny you should say that. I know a professional drummer and head of department who works somewhere in London. He always finds it nearly impossible to give his students' submitted essays any score at all. Even the native English speakers struggle to put a sentence together.

He probably finds it hard to mark his students work because he's a drummer.

TTony

Sassafras said:

fields5069 said:

guitarfishbay said:

TTony said:

Having re-read the opening post, I'd be wary.

It's full of grammatical errors which always alerts my fake-filter 

It makes me believe they're a music student.

Funny you should say that. I know a professional drummer and head of department who works somewhere in London. He always finds it nearly impossible to give his students' submitted essays any score at all. Even the native English speakers struggle to put a sentence together.

He probably finds it hard to mark his students work because he's a drummer.

Strange how all the marks are 1, 2, 3 or 4.

p90fool

mattcerve95 said:

Hey guys!

I am conducting research I'm doing on why I believe guitarists should use digital Amp Modellers for guitar playing as opposed to analogue amplifiers.

Hey guy! Why don't you start by telling us why you believe we should do that?

Arkless_Electronics

Can't be arsed to read through thread but I would point out that a HUGE problem with any sort of modelling amp/external unit etc is that they generally cannot be repaired if they go wrong..... This applies to virtually all digital equipment BTW. It's SO high tech and miniaturised inside that only the manufacturer could fix it and generally even they will just put a whole new board in... at huge cost. If it's more than 5 years old forget it! Disposable society etc..

equalsql

There was a graduate exhibition at my university last week and one of the chaps had set up a similar scenario, but in a proper studio with high quality monitors.  He was comparing a Peavey valve amp, a Kemper profiler and a VST plug in.  

In the first test I couldn't tell which was the real amp.. but when he told me which one was the VST, in all the subsequent tests I could identify the plug-in... but the Kemper was unreal... I just could not tell the difference between it and the real amp in any of the samples.. 

These were just listening tests... so it would have been interesting to have actually played into the Kemper to see if the 'feel' was the same.

fretmeister

Arkless_Electronics said:

Can't be arsed to read through thread but I would point out that a HUGE problem with any sort of modelling amp/external unit etc is that they generally cannot be repaired if they go wrong..... This applies to virtually all digital equipment BTW. It's SO high tech and miniaturised inside that only the manufacturer could fix it and generally even they will just put a whole new board in... at huge cost. If it's more than 5 years old forget it! Disposable society etc..

What are you writing that comment on?

Just curious.

Arkless_Electronics

A Dell Pentium :-)

Anything digital basically. So anything that uses modelling/sampling/digital FX etc. It's all cheap(ish) to buy considering the amazing stuff this technology can do but it really does need to considered disposable. It's SO high tech that even if it is possible to fix it, which it often won't be, the labour charge would need to be so high that it would literally be cheaper to buy a new one. This is the real cost of such high tech.....  Whereas pretty much anything analogue can still be repaired even if it's 50+ years old..

digitalscream

Arkless_Electronics said:

A Dell Pentium :-)

Anything digital basically. So anything that uses modelling/sampling/digital FX etc. It's all cheap(ish) to buy considering the amazing stuff this technology can do but it really does need to considered disposable. It's SO high tech that even if it is possible to fix it, which it often won't be, the labour charge would need to be so high that it would literally be cheaper to buy a new one. This is the real cost of such high tech.....  Whereas pretty much anything analogue can still be repaired even if it's 50+ years old..

The flipside is that the digital gear (generally) gets better with age over its supported lifetime, with firmware updates. You don't get that with analogue gear.

Plectrum

Digital technology seems reliable enough to land a probe on a comet after years exposed to the rigours of outer space. I think it might survive an open mike session at the Dog and Duck

Cirrus

Plectrum said:

Digital technology seems reliable enough to land a probe on a comet after years exposed to the rigours of outer space. I think it might survive an open mike session at the Dog and Duck

Well, you enjoy your £1 billion digital amp made by the finest scientific minds and engineers the world has to offer, I'd certainly bet more money on it than my 15 year old Flextone II.  B-)

Plectrum

Cirrus said:

Plectrum said:

Digital technology seems reliable enough to land a probe on a comet after years exposed to the rigours of outer space. I think it might survive an open mike session at the Dog and Duck

Well, you enjoy your £1 billion digital amp made by the finest scientific minds and engineers the world has to offer, I'd certainly bet more money on it than my 15 year old Flextone II.  B-)

LOL You've spotted the flaw in my argument

Rowby1

Can I ask where you're studying?

digitalscream

Rowby1 said:

Can I ask where you're studying?

Given that this is the centrepiece of his project and he hasn't been back to respond to any of the questions since he posted it, I'm guessing this is just going to be a driveby and you're not going to get an answer...

Arkless_Electronics

Another issue with this sort of gear is that, for reasons beyond the scope of this thread, even the most reliable of this technology is unlikely to last longer than 10 years and sometimes only 5... This is it's design lifetime. (look up electron migration effect for a start if you're curious enough!)
Communications satellites still use valves BTW... yes really, even the latest ones, in the form of a travelling wave tube for the transmitter back to earth...