EU Referendum Vote - Poll

Drew_TNBD

Women are fucking evil.

Fretwired

Drew_fx said:

Women are fucking evil.

And coming to a world near you we have Hilary Clinton .. President of the USA.

Get building your bomb shelter ....

UnclePsychosis

@fretwired was falling over himself to excuse Gove's telling explicit lies yesterday, but now Cameron "can't be trusted" because he said "80% of economists" rather than "80% of those economists who responded"

Talk about cognitive bias.

UnclePsychosis

@hywelg if you want politicians to stand up to big business and the media then you should vote Remain.

The UK would never in a million years have stood up to the Microsoft monopoly the way the EU did, plus there's this little classic from Rupert Murdoch...

"I once asked Rupert Murdoch why he was so opposed to the European Union. 'That’s easy,' he replied. 'When I go into Downing Street they do what I say; when I go to Brussels they take no notice.'"

http://www.standard.co.uk/comment/comment/anthony-hilton-stay-or-go-the-lack-of-solid-facts-means-it-s-all-a-leap-of-faith-a3189151.html

Fretwired

Still thinking of voting to remain? According to this survey from the Pew Research Center (a nonpartisan fact tank that informs the public about the issues, attitudes and trends shaping America and the world) the French are more unhappy with the EU than we are ... I wonder how Cameron will spin this .. :-)

http://www.pewglobal.org/2016/06/07/euroskepticism-beyond-brexit/

Fretwired

UnclePsychosis said:

@fretwired was falling over himself to excuse Gove's telling explicit lies yesterday, but now Cameron "can't be trusted" because he said "80% of economists" rather than "80% of those economists who responded"

Talk about cognitive bias.

  @UnclePsychosis .. go check my posts. I misread the comment and apologised. Gove lied. I do make mistakes.

UnclePsychosis

Fair enough.

I didn't watch the debate because I'd rather pull teeth, but twitter seems to be suggesting that Farage said "let's bring back British passports..." *whilst holding a British passport*. Please someone tell me that's not true. Even Farage isn't that thick, is he?

Investors already pulling incredible sums of money out of the UK by the way. Scaremongering, no doubt...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2016/06/07/investors-pull-cash-out-of-uk-assets-at-fastest-pace-since-finan/

Fortheloveofguitar

UnclePsychosis;1101692" said:

Fair enough.

I didn't watch the debate because I'd rather pull teeth, but twitter seems to be suggesting that Farage said "let's bring back British passports..." *whilst holding a British passport*. Please someone tell me that's not true. Even Farage isn't that thick, is he?

Investors already pulling incredible sums of money out of the UK by the way. Scaremongering, no doubt...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2016/06/07/investors-pull-cash-out-of-uk-assets-at-fastest-pace-since-finan/

God bless the Twitter idiots

That is not what happened at all with the passport

Fretwired

UnclePsychosis said:

@hywelg if you want politicians to stand up to big business and the media then you should vote Remain.

The UK would never in a million years have stood up to the Microsoft monopoly the way the EU did, plus there's this little classic from Rupert Murdoch...

"I once asked Rupert Murdoch why he was so opposed to the European Union. 'That’s easy,' he replied. 'When I go into Downing Street they do what I say; when I go to Brussels they take no notice.'"

http://www.standard.co.uk/comment/comment/anthony-hilton-stay-or-go-the-lack-of-solid-facts-means-it-s-all-a-leap-of-faith-a3189151.html

The EU supports and promotes big business - Germany and France have big businesses - BMW, VW Audi, Siemens, Bosch .... the list is endless. They are not like the UK with lots of small businesses hamstrung with EU red tape.

And that Murdoch quote is old and tired. He has no power any more - social media has made his papers redundant. He's losing money on all of them. The day when the Sun could influence elections has long gone.

UnclePsychosis

It's those wee alternative medicine companies I feel sorry for. Driven out of business by Big Pharma. 's alright though, Nige is on the case now!

This whole thing gets more ludicrous by the day. Should have got myself a postal vote so I could cast it and then spend the next fortnight hiding....

littlegreenman

I've still not heard anything from either side that isn't spin of one form or another, so I'm still on the fence but leaning with remaining.

Fretwired said:

And that Murdoch quote is old and tired. He has no power any more - social media has made his papers redundant. He's losing money on all of them. The day when the Sun could influence elections has long gone.

True, but Sky and The Times might have a little sway still, no? And this is a referendum, not an election.

Emp_Fab

Fretwired said:

The man cannot be trusted.

He's a politician!  By the time they've even made it as a first-time MP, they've already done so many dodgy deals to get selected as a candidate that they're slipperier than a lightly-oiled snake in a pool of jelly.  In order to slither their way through the ranks to get the heady heights of Prime Minister they have to be several orders of magnitude slipperier.  Trust ? - they leave that in the bin after their first lesson at Twatwarts School for Politicians.

Clarky

I saw the debate this evening…

Dave just seemed to provide almost every question with the same answer re-worded a bit each time..

Nige generally seemed to have more variety in his responses [even though some of the questions were too similar]

Nige seemed to me to be more convincing than Dave if for no other reason than trying to talk about more than just one aspect of leaving..

I'm still undecided…

however.. one point did come up that struck a nerve…

it was the threat from the EU President to punish / make an example of the UK if it leaves

so… is this a shot across the bows for any other country thinking of bailing out?

seemed to me like… "if you're in you're ok, if you leave we'll screw you"

that is almost an imperial way of dealing with things..

it's like some sort of passive occupation..

comes to something when allies and partners make threats like that

chillidoggy

I was asked yesterday whether I knew anyone that was going to vote to stay in the EU. I had a think and had to confess I don't know anyone who is in favour of staying. That includes everyone I work with, any of my friends, and family.

The only ones I know in favour of staying are on this forum!

Chalky

chillidoggy;1101739" said:

I was asked yesterday whether I knew anyone that was going to vote to stay in the EU. I had a think and had to confess I don't know anyone who is in favour of staying. That includes everyone I work with, any of my friends, and family.

The only ones I know in favour of staying are on this forum!

Agreed, I think there is a quasi-intellectual, 'I'm being constructive and I am an optimist' appeal to vote Remain that gives them a feeling of moral superiority against what they think of as racist little-Englanders.

Axe_meister

My take immigration.
Now despite 300k people coming into the country unemployment is still going down.
That mea people paying tax buying stuff at shops, etc I.e good for the economy.
Now a lot of those jobs are low wage jobs that could easily be sent off shore. Which means no tax/spending in this country.
So yes immigration is driving down incomes but I'd rather that than the same jobs going elsewhere

chillidoggy

One thing I do think that will be an interesting sideshow is the turn-out. Will it be more than a general election?

UnclePsychosis

chillidoggy;1101739" said:

I was asked yesterday whether I knew anyone that was going to vote to stay in the EU. I had a think and had to confess I don't know anyone who is in favour of staying. That includes everyone I work with, any of my friends, and family.

The only ones I know in favour of staying are on this forum!

Similarly I've literally met no one in favour of Leave.

Same thing happened in the Scottish Independence referendum. "but everyone I spoke to who is just like me agreed with me??????".

Turns out that individuals have very little overview of the total population. Plus, people tend to keep quiet if they think their views may cause conflict (I guarantee you some of the people you think are Leavers aren't, same for my Remainers).

eSully

Fretwired said:

eSully said:

Farage is the remain campaigns best weapon - He's having an absolutely howler on the ITV audience debate. Even managed to tell one woman to "Calm Down Love" when asking her question 

I didn't see it that way. I agree with @Fortheloveofguitar - the woman who asked the question had an agenda and was hostile from the get go. She had no intention of letting him answer on a subject that is frankly irrelevant.

Cameron actually told lies and half truths. If you watch the ITV News after the debate  they called him out. The first was his comment about economists. He said something to the effect that over 80% of economists agreed with him. In reality 4,000 were polled, around 400 answered and of those 80% agreed. So in effect only 8% of economists agreed - lie. He said that under his premiership the UK created more jobs that the rest of the EU put together. He was being disingenuous - for example Germany created more jobs but the EU was let down by job losses in Greece. Misrepresenting statistics - half truth.

The man cannot be trusted.

Just my opinion when watching it live. I thought It went pretty badly for him overall, none of his old favourite hits landed. he didn't get his points across very well, got bogged down in squabbling with the audience. You could see his frustration was boiling over. Although I will grant you he was constantly interrupted by more than one of the audience questioners.Cameron had a comparatively easy ride.

@ChilliDoggy - My friends are Overwhelmingly voting Remain, one or two possible Leavers. My Facebook is a frothing cesspool of Remain propaganda
:P

Modulus_Amps

I think the remainers, in general, are more quiet on this one, same thing with the NO camp in the Scottish referendum.

Facebook > newspapers these days

I caught the second half of this question time late one Thursday, worth a watch if you are undecided, the chap Steven Hilton is one switched on bloke and only spoke sense, in my mind anyway.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZNoogkhnzw