EU Referendum Vote - Poll

ToneControl

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/may/30/ttip-trade-deal-agreements-ceta-eu-canada

Fretwired

ToneControl said:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/may/30/ttip-trade-deal-agreements-ceta-eu-canada

Good old Cameron ...

Emp_Fab

I've decided and I'm sticking to it now.  I'm going to vote leave.  After doing some more research and listening to Tony Benn I think it's the right thing to do.  Shit needs stirring up from time to time anyway.  However - I do think my vote is pointless as I predict that remain will win by a margin of about 6%, so, if nothing else, whenever anyone moans to me about something the EU is imposing on us, I can smugly state "Well, I didn't vote for them". :-)

I reckon the British tend to play it safe overall, and of the 11% of floating voters, I'm predicting that more of them will opt for the 'safe' option of remain when they are staring at a ballot paper.  Shitarses.

Bidley

Emp_Fab said:

I reckon the British tend to play it safe overall, and of the 11% of floating voters, I'm predicting that more of them will opt for the 'safe' option of remain when they are staring at a ballot paper.  Shitarses.

I see there's a nice meme going around Facebook suggesting people who are undecided should vote remain, because "we can leave any time" and it "keeps our options open".

Ignoring the disingenuous nature, shouldn't an informed vote be encouraged?

chillidoggy

Emp_Fab said:

I've decided and I'm sticking to it now.  I'm going to vote leave.  After doing some more research and listening to Tony Benn I think it's the right thing to do.  Shit needs stirring up from time to time anyway.  However - I do think my vote is pointless as I predict that remain will win by a margin of about 6%, so, if nothing else, whenever anyone moans to me about something the EU is imposing on us, I can smugly state "Well, I didn't vote for them". :-)

I reckon the British tend to play it safe overall, and of the 11% of floating voters, I'm predicting that more of them will opt for the 'safe' option of remain when they are staring at a ballot paper.  Shitarses.

Your vote is most definitely NOT pointless! Every vote counts.

In any case, if we do vote to stay in, you'll be able to moan like a bastard with plenty of 'I told you so' retorts when it all goes tits-up for us.

ICBM

Fretwired said:

ToneControl said:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/may/30/ttip-trade-deal-agreements-ceta-eu-canada





Good old Cameron ...

So once again we're going to have to rely on another EU nation to block it...

I really don't understand your position on this. You oppose these trade deals (rightly in my opinion), but want to leave the EU and put the power to decide on them purely in the hands of our government who are already committed to pushing them through. How is that going to help stop them?

ToneControl

ICBM said:

Fretwired said:

ToneControl said:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/may/30/ttip-trade-deal-agreements-ceta-eu-canada





Good old Cameron ...

So once again we're going to have to rely on another EU nation to block it...

I really don't understand your position on this. You oppose these trade deals (rightly in my opinion), but want to leave the EU and put the power to decide on them purely in the hands of our government who are already committed to pushing them through. How is that going to help stop them?

the UK can vote in a new govt to reverse bad decisions 

Fretwired

ICBM said:

Fretwired said:

ToneControl said:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/may/30/ttip-trade-deal-agreements-ceta-eu-canada





Good old Cameron ...

So once again we're going to have to rely on another EU nation to block it...

I really don't understand your position on this. You oppose these trade deals (rightly in my opinion), but want to leave the EU and put the power to decide on them purely in the hands of our government who are already committed to pushing them through. How is that going to help stop them?

I wonder if Cameron would be so free and easy were he not able to hide behind the EU. Let's see if the EU actually blocks it .. the Commission rarely listens to the concerns of citizens. If it does we're off the hook and have something to thank the EU for ...

Ro_S

Sporky said:

I had a postal vote. Saves queuing up with the proles.

and the naturalised Poles?

;p

Clarky

I've just voted…

despite having a really tough time trying to make up my mind..

and not really trusting a lot of the information / arguments presented due to them either being dubious, fictitious or not without some sort of bias, I had to make a choice..

my heart said to vote out because I have a deep mistrust of the direction the EU is moving in..

however, I decided that like all the biased self serving folks out there I can only make what I think is my best judgement for personal reasons..

so I voted in..

because:

I am a touring musician [mostly Europe] and being a member of the EU makes this a lot easier than it would be otherwise [visa / work permit free zone etc]..

right now in my life, the very last thing I need is an unstable economy [even for just a few years]

more than half of my family are immigrants [both British and foreign living all over the place]

and finally, I heard something on the news that said, no matter what the outcome, even if the UK remains, a sufficient shot of dissatisfaction has been made across the bows of the EU, and as such they have conceded that the general angst is not just within the UK, but also within many other member states great and small.. and so it is time for the top EU folks to rethink things and consider some sort of meaningful reform…

this tipped the balance for me..

I am more than happy for the UK to be a member of the EU, but not the EU as it exists right now..

so my gamble is that the EU top bods actually take note of this and set about doing something positive and meaningful

Modulus_Amps

Clarky said:

so my gamble is that the EU top bods actually take note of this and set about doing something positive and meaningful

If you could make that positive and meaningful make them money then yes it could happen, if not you have no chance as already said by Junker.

Sporky

ToneControl said:

the UK can vote in a new govt to reverse bad decisions 

Is changing an established trade agreement very likely though? I was under the impression that they're very complex and usually the result of compromise and consensus. A renegotiation resulting in a significant shift in favour of either party is therefore rather unlikely.

ToneControl

Sporky said:

ToneControl said:

the UK can vote in a new govt to reverse bad decisions 

Is changing an established trade agreement very likely though? I was under the impression that they're very complex and usually the result of compromise and consensus. A renegotiation resulting in a significant shift in favour of either party is therefore rather unlikely.

what trade agreement do you mean?

my point was that the EU has no important external trade deals, and that an independent UK could make or break whatever deals it wishes 

Sporky

ToneControl said:

Sporky said:

ToneControl said:

the UK can vote in a new govt to reverse bad decisions 

Is changing an established trade agreement very likely though? I was under the impression that they're very complex and usually the result of compromise and consensus. A renegotiation resulting in a significant shift in favour of either party is therefore rather unlikely.

what trade agreement do you mean?

my point was that the EU has no important external trade deals, and that an independent UK could make or break whatever deals it wishes 

You were responding to a post about trade deals, and you said that the next government could reverse any bad decision - from context I assumed that by "bad decision" you meant relating to trade deals.

I pointed out that this is actually a non-trivial task.

If your point was that the EU has no important external trade deals (which is missing the point of the EU a bit) then maybe you should have said something about that, rather than saying that the next government could reverse any bad decision, which was what you actually said.

It's tricky to respond to points you didn't type out!

Bogwhoppit

Fretwired said:

Look on the bright side .. this time tomorrow we'll be back to complaining about the rain and watching the footie and rugby.

Or painting the house

UnclePsychosis

Vote leave already finger pointing at London and Scotland. *sigh*. I can only see this whole thing becoming more unpleasant.

https://twitter.com/JamieRoss7/status/745990037712568321

Clarky

Modulus_Amps said:

Clarky said:

so my gamble is that the EU top bods actually take note of this and set about doing something positive and meaningful

If you could make that positive and meaningful make them money then yes it could happen, if not you have no chance as already said by Junker.

I do agree that Junker seems to me to be a monumental tosser..

the sooner his reign is over the better..

Sporky

UnclePsychosis said:

Vote leave already finger pointing at London and Scotland. *sigh*. I can only see this whole thing becoming more unpleasant.

https://twitter.com/JamieRoss7/status/745990037712568321

I love that bit about "if you don't want people in London and Scotland to force you to stay in the EU"

It's delightfully poisoned with the implication that their wishes and desires are WRONG AND MORE WRONG.

ICBM

ToneControl said:

the UK can vote in a new govt to reverse bad decisions 

Have you read what some of the terms of these agreements are? They are specifically written to prevent future governments undoing them.

The only way to stop them right now is to remain in the EU and persuade at least one other nation to veto them. Fortunately it's beginning to look like this may happen.

Mkjackary

Sporky said:

Is changing an established trade agreement very likely though? I was under the impression that they're very complex and usually the result of compromise and consensus. A renegotiation resulting in a significant shift in favour of either party is therefore rather unlikely.

This is true, but the new deals mostly arent about being better negotiators, but the areas that we want and the areas the EU want are different.

So when negotiating a deal the EU may push for a certain group of things but the uk, if it had the option, would push for a different group of things that would help its economy more.

The terms for an EU-Other trade deal have to benefit all countries, and by doing so, will not be ideal for all countries as countries will have to make concessions so everyone is happy.

By having our own trade deals we can push for the things that matter to us, not the things that matter to germany, france, poland, etc.

There is also the point that some countries that the UK has a great history with but the EU doesn't have a great history with may be willing to do a better deal with us than they will/have done with the EU.(canada for instance - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turbot_War or for another example the commonwealth countries/USA etc etc)

Honestly I couldn't say if that last point would have any influence on our trade deals, but it could, and it certainly wouldn't have a negative impact.