Why do people need a backup?

timmysoft

Are amps more unreliable these days, I toured for 9 years without a spare amp.
- 2 years Laney Vc50
- 1 year Laney lionheart 20h
- 2 years Marshall dsl100
- 1 year Marshall jcm900 4100
- 2 years Laney GH50l
- 1 year Laney vc30

In that time I blew one fuse on the Laney Gh, other than that, no issues! This was van touring too, so the amps weren't treated with much respect, plus most of the amps would have done 2-3 rehearsals a week, every week.

So why are all your amps so unreliable? TELL ME!!!

thomasross20

Lots of valve horror stories on here. I'm sticking with transistors

ICBM

Mine aren't, and I don't.

My big valve amp has two speakers, four power valves, two rectifiers, and two channels. Apart from replacing a fuse and needing some of the valves removing to allow it to get through the rest of the gig, almost nothing that happens to it could stop me getting by on at worst one channel and half power.

My other giggable amp is a solid-state Peavey, so there's no need to take a backup for that at all.

Valve amps can and do blow valves at any time. You'll probably get away with it most of the time, but ask yourself - do you feel lucky?

The problem with transistor amps is that they're often not perfectly reliable either. You just need to try to find out which are the good ones and which aren't.

John_P

I suspect there are more unreliable transistor amps out there.
With modern gear, it's very rare things break but it's hardly a lot of hassle to have a spare guitar ready and some sort of pedal with di on the board that can be swapped in quickly.
Then a few spare cables, batteries, power supply etc in the cable bag just in case will hardly be noticeable but all these things can save a gig from being a disaster. Backups doesn't have to mean carrying a ton of gear - just enough to save the gig without a lot of fuss.

Wazmeister

GAS justification

ecc83

"Backup" means being professional to me.

I don't play and gig but for those that do FOR MONEY it is surely wise to make as sure as you can that you can "do the job"? 

There might even be serious legal/financial penalties if you don't take "reasonable precautions" to fulfil even a verbal contract.

Dave.

simonk

Just in case mostly. One day, something will go wrong, it always does. We've had to use our spare recently due to a minor problem with the other guys Laney. Having the spare available offers a little peace of mind.

stratman3142

I've got a couple of old Crate Power Blocks that I take to gigs as back up amps. I've never had to use them, but a bass player once used one of them to get through a gig.

I also take a spare guitar and a spare overdrive pedal. Again, I've never had to use them. But the other guitarist in a band once used my spare overdrive pedal at a rehearsal when his amp channel switch went down. Perhaps I'm carrying spares for other people.

Sods law that something will go wrong if I don't take a backup.

monquixote

Depends on the gig. 

If you are getting paid £150 to play Mustang Sally at the Dog and Duck then who cares.

If you are getting a couple of grand to play a wedding then it's completely unacceptable for the show to be spoiled by a technical problem. 

I've never had an amp fail on me, but I have had pedals die.

Fiftyshadesofjay

A lot of amps aren't inherently unreliable. Valves definitely are though.

slacker

I generally play in venues where there's a spare amp. If not illtake a 15w head or a nano. Same with guitars.with pedals I heave the board aside turn the amp up and ride the guitar volumes.

martinw

Fiftyshadesofjay said:

A lot of amps aren't inherently unreliable. Valves definitely are though.

No, they're not.

p90fool

I've been gigging almost exclusively with valve amps since 1981 and have only had one amp break down in all that time, and that was a ground screw vibrating loose in a '77 Superlead which I ran flat out at gigs and rehearsals for two years. I've never had a single valve failure at a gig.

Despite that, I always take some kind of backup, whether an amp sim pedal or multieffects or occasionally a spare head, simply because I gig for money and can't afford to let people down.

My valve amps, which have ranged from vintage Marshall and Wem, through modern Fender, Chinese-built Jet City, my own home builds, and countless other designs have always been among the most reliable things in my life.
I really don't get why anyone would compromise their sound so heavily for such a tenuous if not actually bogus increase in reliability.

The only form of amplification I ever have die prematurely on me is solid state PA equipment, in fact I expect it, at least once a year on average.

Jalapeno

Amp - because shit happens - not yet to me thanksfully.

Guitar - Strings break, not cool restringing mid set.  Has happen 3-4 times, grab the spare and finish the set.

Cabicular

Because you can run across a motorway a hundred times and never come to any harm ...It doesn't necessarily follow that it is safe
Even if you need a backup 1 time in 1000 I'll guarantee that one time you'll really need it
Plus it's handy if you have an unexpected guest
Just good practice really
I've had a speaker fail on me (terminals worked loose somehow) I've had one actually seize every time he amp warmed up
I've had a mystery shutdown that I could never reproduce on a Two Rock Jet
Various bits of PA gear fail etc
Whilst I don't always carry two of everything I try to build redundancy into every part of the rig
(For example the monitors have a mixer built in that I can use if the PA fails)
Drum mics can be used for vocals at a push
I run in stereo so I can tolerate a failure of one side of my rig
I hate getting caught out because I didn't think ahead

Danny1969

I don't think valve amps are unreliable, I've actually repaired more solidstate stuff like Trace Elliot, Ashdown and Line 6 for my band mates than I have valve based amps, it's one of the reasons I'm not that clued up on common valve amp faults, I don't see enough of them. Valves (mainly power) do wear out but generally the owners can change those themselves quite easy. And they can change them at a gig ......... try changing a Marshall AVT TDA power ic chip at a gig .... it's a lot harder

In the last 12 years (I know it's twelve because we had an anniversary gig a few weeks ago) I have had one side of my Marshall EL34 100\100 go wrong when it sucked in some metallic hen party confetti and recently one of my HT5's went wrong due to a bad valve. 

As far as spares go it depends on the gig. Today I didn't take any spares other than a guitar. For big money stuff I have spares for everything and we carry a spare desk for FOH, spare mics, spare leads, configurable PA system, because it's the professional thing to do. 

For the big money stuff you have to have spares of pretty much everything. 

ICBM

I see more solid-state stuff too - and even with the valve stuff, valve failures are not the majority of repairs.

But the problem is that even in the very best, most overbuilt and totally reliable valve amps, the valves can still fail even if nothing else does.

So a really well-built solid-state amp can always be more reliable than a valve amp, if it's designed properly.

The problem with amps like Ashdowns is that they're shit, not that they're solid-state. Their valve amps are no good either.

I also agree with Danny that it's usually possible to get a valve amp going again fairly easily - assuming it's well-enough built that it never blows anything other than a fuse when a valve fails - but a solid-state failure is always a bench job.

On the other hand so is a Marshall DSL when the board catches fire...

ecc83

In my limited (4 yrs total) experience with "guitarist kit" most failures on artist loaners were due to broken bits!

Pot shafts seriously bent or sheared off, buggered jacks, smashed Z selectors (and YES IC there were of good quality! Flush with the chassis and "owners" did not break them!) .

There were valve failures, they were the next most common fault and finally, very rarely, a component failure. An IC or a FET. But then this was new stuff so I was at the top of the "bath tub curve" . Anecdotally as things have been out there, mods found and done, the gear seems very reliable. But if I was doing ANY sort of gig I would take a backup system, if only not to look like a pratt!

In the wider electronics world where I spent 40 years. TV, VCR, "consumer" audio, you cannot make any direct comparisons because compared to the above gear, domestic kit is mostly cheap shit! People like Amstrad who could not even make a continuously rated 12VA 50Hz power supply.

Dave.

ICBM

ecc83 said:

But if I was doing ANY sort of gig I would take a backup system, if only not to look like a pratt!

That's the key - not necessarily a backup *amp*. But you do need a backup *system* - something you can reconnect in a different way to get you by, if you have to... at worst a pedal you can run through the PA, or any other available amplifier (eg a powered monitor).

And to know what you're doing so you can get it up and running quickly and with no fuss, so you don't look like you're in a panic.

kjdowd

ICBM;1091654" said:

ecc83 said:But if I was doing ANY sort of gig I would take a backup system, if only not to look like a pratt!



That's the key - not necessarily a backup *amp*. But you do need a backup *system* - something you can reconnect in a different way to get you by, if you have to... at worst a pedal you can run through the PA, or any other available amplifier (eg a powered monitor).

And to know what you're doing so you can get it up and running quickly and with no fuss, so you don't look like you're in a panic.

Exactly this. I'm running a helix 4cm through a 2 channel valve amp. If the amp dies, I can go helix into the pa. if the helix dies, I can use the two channels on the amp and play the repeats a bit quieter instead of using a delay, like Justin from the Darkness.

BintyTwanger77

I'm considering a 2nd amp as back-up, but more as a cheaper one that I'd be happy to take to a rehearsal.