Why do people need a backup?

martinw

earwighoney said:

A really informative reply, thanks Martin.  Without going too off topic in context to something mentioned above, what makes some amps less conomically viable to repair than others?  

Low resale value. When you can go on eBay and buy another one 2nd hand for less than the price of a repair.

Not helped by the fact that in many cases, the cheapest amps can be more complex and time consuming to repair.

ICBM

The worst one I've yet come across was a Behringer 'Ultra Twin', which had a broken pot. Easy enough you would think - except that to get the pots and the PCB on which they're mounted out, you have to peel off the glued-on front panel to access the nuts, and which is a thin sheet of printed metal and is obviously stuck on *after* the pots are fitted to the chassis.

There is no way of getting it off without destroying it, so that would need to be replaced (from Behringer, since it's obviously unique to the amp)… on top of the considerable amount of labour needed to do all this. So basically not repairable, certainly not economically - they were only a couple of hundred new I think. So with a broken pot (actually two I think, but it makes no difference) the whole amp was a write-off.

The Ashdown Peacemaker and Fallen Angel are only marginally easier to take apart too. Likewise they're clearly assembled in the wrong order - which makes getting the chassis out to do any service work, even simple stuff, a right pain.

ChrisMusic

ICBM said:

EricTheWeary said:  Indeed, the singer's Peavey went down first gig after a pro service.

Including new valves? This is quite common, unfortunately a lot of people assume that fitting new valves is a good way to ensure they won't fail - actually the reverse is true, brand-new valves have a much higher failure rate than ones that have got through that period. (Known as 'infant mortality'.)

So for the benefit of forum collective knowledge and on the assumption that in the average service a tech is unlikely to put the amp on soak, what do you recommend the recipient of a freshly serviced / re-valved amp to do to prevent 'infant mortality syndrome' taking a bite out of their professional reputation (and that of the servicing tech), and hence preventing this sort of embarrassing scenario ?

ICBM

ChrisMusic said:

So for the benefit of forum collective knowledge and on the assumption that in the average service a tech is unlikely to put the amp on soak, what do you recommend the recipient of a freshly serviced / re-valved amp to do to prevent 'infant mortality syndrome' taking a bite out of their professional reputation (and that of the servicing tech), and hence preventing this sort of embarrassing scenario ?

Use the amp as much as possible at home and practices before taking it out to a gig is about the best you can do. In theory you could swap back the old valves for the gig until the new ones are well burned-in, but that's a real faff with a lot of amps, especially if they need biasing.

ChrisMusic

Wise words as always, basically a DIY soak test then, cheers ICBM  

P.S.  what sort of burn in time would you recommend ?

ICBM

ChrisMusic said:

Wise words as always, basically a DIY soak test then, cheers ICBM  

P.S.  what sort of burn in time would you recommend ?

I'm not sure - I don't use enough new valves to get an accurate picture really - but 24 hrs running time seems to be often recommended.

Dave @ecc83 may know more, I think he did testing on this at Blackstar.

Cabicular

In my non technical (but fairly long) experience, fluctuating power seems to do a lot of damage to amps . Especially when they are running hot
There are a couple of venues that I have issues with and the power in them is completely inadequate for the load they get with bands

shaunm

I play with two amps now but always if I was playing a paid gig I would have a back up.

It's nothing to do with a lack of confidence in a product but to ensure that I am 100% able to finish that gig. Imagine the problems from not being able to finish a wedding reception because of something like an amp malfunction.

I always carry a spare guitar, spare power sockets and guitar leads. It's the correct thing to do.

57Deluxe

I dunno so much about a Backup but I am waiting for an Alibi...

ChrisMusic

57Deluxe said:

I dunno so much about a Backup but I am waiting for an Alibi...

maybe this will help clarify things regarding the use of an alibi

duration 3:36

p90fool

Cabicular said:

In my non technical (but fairly long) experience, fluctuating power seems to do a lot of damage to amps . Especially when they are running hot
There are a couple of venues that I have issues with and the power in them is completely inadequate for the load they get with bands

My experience too, I've had a few PA amps killed by power fluttering on and off. I run everything off an RCD these days, so if the power goes off it stays off until I believe it's stable again.

Blueingreen

I don't think I've ever brought a back-up amp or guitar to a gig.  I may just have been fantastically lucky, but I've only once had an amp go, at a sound-check, and I was able to borrow one from someone who lived nearby. I've never had any guitar issues worse than a broken string, and even that hasn't happened to me for many years (even in the house, never mind a gig).

When I see guys arguing back up is essential and it's unprofessional to gig without it I always have a twinge of guilt, but not enough to make me do anything about it,  and I've gotten away with it so far.

Nowadays I do happen to have a Flyrig 5, not bought as back up but could probably be used as amp back-up in an emergency.

BintyTwanger77

I'd probably get a 2nd amp for gigging/rehearsal now, because I protective of my DRRI. Is that daft?

ICBM

BintyTwanger77 said:

I'd probably get a 2nd amp for gigging/rehearsal now, because I protective of my DRRI. Is that daft?

Yes. It's a good reliable amp and it was made to be played.

If you're worried about it getting damaged, get a decent cover or a lightweight flightcase. Either will cost less than a second amp… certainly anything worth having.

(Well… a solid state Peavey will cost less than a flightcase, but to be honest if I had a Deluxe Reverb *even I* probably wouldn't use a solid-state Peavey to gig with instead - unless I needed more volume.)

ChrisMusic

ICBM said:

ChrisMusic said:

Wise words as always, basically a DIY soak test then, cheers ICBM  

P.S.  what sort of burn in time would you recommend ?

I'm not sure - I don't use enough new valves to get an accurate picture really - but 24 hrs running time seems to be often recommended.

Dave @ecc83 may know more, I think he did testing on this at Blackstar.

Quoted here from the "valve change time advice please" thread by @jpfamps, hope that's OK with you ~  Comment #1103308

(whole thread >here<)

"The vendours I use burn the valves for 24 hour in as part of the matching process. I would not rely on valves that had been matched without this procedure.

This will cost extra, but I am in the business of repairing amps; I don't want amps coming back due to failed valves. Money well spent in my view.

Manufactures of course want to keep costs down, so often the "factory matched" or even unmatched is the cheapest option.

I check the matching before installation as, in my experience, valves can be damaged in shipping.

I also run amps for an hour or so after installation of new valves whilst monitoring the bias. In my experience the valves I get are stable and well matched.

Burning in reduces gas (and hence grid current) due to getter action and is required for ALL new valves before installation. Also full activation of the cathode requires that the cathode is energised for several hours.

Additionally burning gets valves through the "infant mortality" end of the bathtub curve.

The RDH4 recommends 56 hours of burning in! "